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Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing Datakim Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM

In Rands place I would have chased Graendal off and seen what could have been done for her slaves. AoL inability or not the humane thing to do is try! My point with Healing Stilling wasn't to say that Nynaeve is better than everyone. The point is even things that the Restorers of the AoL took for granted as "unhealable" have in fact been healed ... Rand is working on a faulty assumption based on an opinion formed by a less than expert "witness". What he did was commit mass murder, him rationalizing it as "mercy killing" doesn't make it right, or even okay IMO.


I think LTT, the leader of the AS and the one in charge of the whole damn war effort would know better than anyone how compulsion works and what Graendal could do. I mean it was LTT that told Nynaeve how to unravel compulsion in the first place. I would most certainly consider him to be an "expert witness". Certainly he knows better than Nynaeve.

Infact, I have often suspected that the reason a way to heal stilling was not discovered in the AoL, was because no one really tried all that hard.

Consider, who were the ones who got severed in the AoL. Criminals who committed severe crimes and refused to be bound in the binding rod. Why would an AS highly skilled in healing spend time and effort trying to reverse that, when she could rather spend her efforts healing the truly innocent sick. Given that they knew a lot more about ter'angreal and their training was better. I doubt accidental severings happened all that often, if at all. So essentially, if you got severed, you deserved it, and no one was going to waste their time looking for a way to heal you.

That might have changed in the war of power. But again it seems likely that if you got severed in a battle, the opposing channeler probably killed you instantly afterwards. With ways to heal mental illnesses(compulsion used properly), and advanced tech (shocklances), even a severed channeler was a potential threat afterall. Better to kill him quickly once he was unable to defend himself.

So it seems likely that even then, severed channelers did not happen all that often. And there would have been a LOT of injuries among the population, injuries that desperately needed the restorers. Would it really make sense to dedicate resources to researching something that would not be all THAT usefull in such a situation, when that research would mean taking restorers away from their other duties and letting potentially thousands of people (soldiers and civilians) die.

So I suspect that if the AoL restorers had truly put their heads together and researched the matter thoroughly, they would have found a way to do what Nynaeve did. It did not seem all THAT complex afterall. But as they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and in the AoL the necessacity was not there. So essentially Nynaeves discovery, while cool, does not in any way make her superiour/better to the far more skilled and experienced AoL restorers.

I do believe however that what happened to Graendals victims is something that was researched thoroughly. It seems probable that Graendals victims were mostly high ranking people with important skills and such, and healing them would have been important to the war effort. Becoming a braindead zombie was probably very terrifying aswell, more so than just being killed I would say. So from that perspective, it seems likely that it was studied. And compulsion was well understood by all, since it was used regularly to heal mental illnesses. And yet, despite all of that, the damage done by Graendal was irreversible, even to people who know MUCH more than Nynaeve. And LTT would have been there, reading the reports from those restorers.

So essentially, when LTT says that there is nothing that can be done, with the experience of tens or hundreds of AoL restorers backing him up, I choose to believe that he was right. What happened to the innocents that Graendal took was tragic, but they were most likely beyond help.

And what about the others?

By driving Graendal off, even when he had the chance to kill her, would that not make Rand indirectly responsible for every victim of Graendals in the future.

Hundreds of healthy people would be captured and mind-raped to get Graendal new pets and servants. People that would otherwise have continued to live normal lives. Do you think their families would be happy that Rand made it possible for their loved ones to be mindraped and destroyed, in order to save a group of zombies who had a VERY low chance of recovery?

And what about the chaos Graendal would continue to cause? The damage to society she would bring. Order and Belief bring strength. What happened in Arad Doman is a good example of the utter devastation that Graendal is capable of doing with her subtle manipulations.

What if letting Graendal go here just to save the drones ended up losing Rand the fight entirely? What if in retaliation, Graendal had Min assassinated to fullfill Moridins command about bringing Rand pain, driving him so badly insane that not even the revelation he had at the end would have fixed him?

I don't think there was an absolutely perfect solution here. But Rand chose the best one available. The one that he knew would achieve the most good in the long run.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1592 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 991 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 990 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1014 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 919 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 830 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 948 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 861 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 831 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 784 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 780 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 742 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 768 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 749 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 904 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 813 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 875 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 755 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 849 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 786 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 797 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 775 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 884 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 899 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 811 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 924 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 738 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 787 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 408 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 802 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 808 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 772 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 447 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 752 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 387 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 760 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 736 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 867 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 790 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 827 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 819 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 805 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 803 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 824 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 779 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 835 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 722 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 812 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 796 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 801 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 816 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 757 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 831 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 762 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 704 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 882 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 816 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 792 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 749 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 806 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 715 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 739 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 891 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 738 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 743 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 821 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 766 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 798 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 874 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 742 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 747 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 812 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 751 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 896 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 849 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 805 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 837 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 731 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 840 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 787 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 826 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 749 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 823 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 981 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1088 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 717 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 757 Views

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