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Re: Yes it was. Datakim Send a noteboard - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
Rand doesn't know; even his explanation of why he did this did not include greater knowledge of the mechanism. He just said Graendal was so dangerous that killing innocent souls to get rid of her was worthwhile. He's not the Creator, doesn't understand the higher laws of reality and neither are Nynaeve or Min. Truly, I think Cadsuane hit the nail on the head when she backed Min up - if Rand himself utilized balefire in such a way that reality wa destabilized and the Bore was torn open, it wouldn't matter if the balefired souls would be Reborn in one, two or whatever Turnings of the Wheel RJ specified - the Dark One would have destroyed reality in any case, and it would be Rand's fault.


Are you sure he does not know? AoLeres developed Balefire, LTT has much of that knowledge which means right now, so does Rand. It seems reasonable enough to me for Rand to know full well that balefire does not kill souls. And I have something which strongly suggests that this is true.

Liah.

In Shadar Logoth, Liah is caught by Mashadar. Rand has reason to believe that Mashadar is going to eat her soul, so in order to save her he destroys her with balefire, burning her thread back to before Mashadar caught her, killing Liah, but saving her soul.

Rand even mentions this specific event when she balefires Graendal and calls it a mercy, which it was. Now consider, if Rand believed or even had a reason to doubt that balefire destroyed souls, why would he have used that on Liah. Using balefire on Liah makes sense only if he thinks that death by balefire is better than death by Mashadar.

No, I think he knows full well, probably from LTT and research done in AoL what balefire does, and that it does not kill souls.


I mean, technically, carrying your line of argument to it's ultimate conclusion, it wouldn't even matter if you balefired a Forsaken because they would come back, anyway. They'd be removed from the field, but there are quite a lot of twisted entities such as Shaidar Haran or Slayer that technically speaking, are much more difficult for a Third Age channeler to comprehend or deal with.


I am not entirely sure I understand what you are saying here. I mean sure, balefired forsaken come back. But they dont come back as those personalities, and they come as new infants so they are no longer his enemies at that point, even if the soul is the same. Which is the whole point of using balefire.


I basically think, in the context of the overall story, that the WoT world is largely a post-apocalyptic one, and destabilizing the Pattern in any way when it is already frayed to the breaking point is not a good idea.


Not even to get rid of a forsaken who might destablize it even more? I have never claimed that Rand did no damage, just that thanks to LTT and the knowledge of balefire he has from the WoP, he is better equipped to judge the damage done to the pattern than anyone else alive.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1620 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1022 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1017 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1047 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 949 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 856 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 974 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 892 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 859 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 808 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 811 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 770 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 797 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 778 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 933 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 840 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 904 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 791 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 883 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 817 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 856 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 800 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 912 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 926 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 840 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 952 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 766 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 872 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 427 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 830 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 848 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 801 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 460 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 779 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 431 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 787 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 760 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 897 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 816 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 855 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 850 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 836 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 833 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 851 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 809 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 868 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 753 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 844 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 822 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 832 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 844 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 789 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 857 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 788 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 732 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 911 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 844 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 828 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 779 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 833 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 744 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 765 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 921 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 763 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 772 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 847 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 795 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 826 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 902 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 771 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 776 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 839 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 780 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 924 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 880 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 830 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 865 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 760 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 868 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 820 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 848 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 776 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 855 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1011 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1139 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 742 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 787 Views

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