I think none of them. She was never willingly of the Black and her Light motives were more likely
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 04/01/2010 11:45:21 PM
When Verin talks to Egwene about the oaths to the DO, she points out that it is impossible to betray him until the hour of death. I wonder about the implications of this statement concerning all the actions that Verin has taken in the series.
I think "betray" in this instance has the connotation of revealing anything about the Black Ajah or the Shadow's secrets. Otherwise, they could not betray and turn on one another, since going against one's superior is a betrayal of the organization or society in which that person is superior. Most of the things she did in the series that we know about happened when she was away from most other sisters or someone else was in control of the circumstances, so she either had an excuse, or was out from under the eyes of the Black Ajah. Delana's inital conversation with Aran'gar implies, IMO, that the Black Ajah operates more or less independantly of the rest of the darkfriend organization, with Black sisters probably never having to answer to non-Aes Sedai darkfriends.
- Making Rand fulfill his destiny at Falme.
She didn't want the Dark One to win. This was purely Lightsided motivation.
- Giving Egwene the dream terangreal (mentioned by herself)
They didn't know about the ter'angreal, so she could do it. IIRC, not even Siuan knew what she was up to with that. She obviously did not have to report her every action to her Black superiors, and they cannot be omniscient.- Helping the 2 rivers fighting trollocs
No reason anyone from the Shadow would know about that, and if they found out, she had personal survival as an excuse. Killing Shadowspawn really doesn't seem to be a crime for high-ranking Darkfriends, as the Black Ajah seems to think they all are.
- Using compulsion on the captured WT AS to make them obey Rand
This suits with her ongoing goal of keeping him free of Aes Sedai control. Recall that her "ramblings" diverted Siuan and Moiraine when they were intimidating Rand, and gave him a chance to collect himself and find his bearings. She seems to agree with Lan's assessment that Rand needed to face the Amyrlin Seat as a free man with dignity, rather than as a subservient minion. Later, she is prepared to poison Cadsuane, and is dissuaded by Cadsuane's statement that she has no intention of controlling Rand or preventing him from doing what he feels he has to.- Making sure Rand accepts Cadsuane as advisor
She's an Aes Sedai, and thus believes they are the best people in the world to get stuff done. She is loyal to Rand, believes he could benefit from Cadsuane as an advisor, and tells him so, especially because, as I noted, she knows Cadsuane won't overstep.- Helping Mat reaching Caemlyn quickly (when there is a standing order that he should be killed though she might not know of that order)
Well, obviously at that point, she was working on her endgame and didn't give a damn what her superiors would think, since she planned to be done with the Black Ajah one way or another.I wonder how many of these actions were helping the DO? For example, with hindsight I suspect that Verin actively caused the failure of the Salidar AS delegation with rand due to the 'let the lord of chaos rule' order. (this does not exclude that she personally thought it good for him to be free of AS strings)
She's been out of touch for a while. As I said above, there is no indication that Black sisters customarily take orders from non-Aes Sedai darkfriends, since Delana seems to think that bona fides or no, she doesn't have to take Halima seriously, until she reveals herself as Aran'gar. It took a dire dream warning to get Delana to accept Aran'gar's orders, proper signals or not. Verin obviously did not receive any such dream order or she'd have mentioned it to the girl SHE HERSELF had helped along the path of learning to be a Dreamwalker. With the Salidar embassy being the first sisters she had met since that order was passed, how was she supposed to get it? For that matter, there is no evidence that anyone but the Forsaken were told to "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" Mazrim Taim notwithstanding.And if they were not all serving the DO how did she manage to get round her oaths? there is even something more complex to this question: Verin has seen her possible futures in tGH when rand used the portal stones. So she knows about the consequences of her actions and cannot claim uncertainty/ignorance when she performs an action that helps the light. Which would suggest that all her actions until her final betrayal helped the DO.
Any ideas/thoughts?
Yes. You are taking that Oath to mean too much. If an Oath was as restrictive in all possible permutations and double-meanings and implications as you suggest, Aes Sedai could not twist their words with intent to deceive, and that loophole about the hour of her death would not be able to be taken literally. An Oath only binds the swearer to a MINIMAL literal obediance, not a maximal. Otherwise, how could they do ANYTHING without first mentally justifying it as a service to the Dark One. They can take actions that are not necessarily in his service or best interests, they just cannot do anything to expose the Black Ajah, in addition to whatever the other two are. THAT is the meaning of "betray" in that Oath.
Any ideas/thoughts?
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Verin's actions in the series
04/01/2010 12:57:38 PM
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Re: Verin's actions in the series
04/01/2010 01:59:38 PM
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I think none of them. She was never willingly of the Black and her Light motives were more likely
04/01/2010 11:45:21 PM
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You can disobey any DarkFriend/Forsaken. Selfishness is first. After the DO. So ....
05/01/2010 12:32:51 AM
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