Only a couple of points where I differ and the differences are not great.
Therefore we can assume the following ...
- Almost all of Egwene's novices are weaker than Daigian. (<37.5% on the bell curve)
- Hundreds of Shaido Wise Ones are as strong as Daigain. (>37.5% on the bell curve)
- 1000 Aes Sedai are stronger than Daigian. (>37.5% on the bell curve)
- This sample of about 3000 channelers shows that about 1/3 of women cannot reach the shawl whereas 2/3 can, just like RJ said.
I agree with all of this.
This once again fits into my own personal theory of female strength...
- Aes Sedai 20 (range 5 - 25)
- Egwene 50
- Nynaeve 90
- Lanfear 100
I've always ranked the channelers on a ten point scale rather than a 100 point scale, but it is easily converted. The average AS strength that I have always believed is almost dead on with yours (a 2.1; i.e., 21 rather than 20). Egwene (and Elayne and Avi) I had pegged at a 5.0, which meshes with yours. Nynaeve, however, I've had at 8.0.
Even with BS's comments regarding there only being six channelers stronger than Nynaeve, I think the 8.0 rating fits because I've always been of the opinion that a one point difference (ten points on your scale) is a fairly significant difference. Two full points of difference would allow the stronger channeler to crush shields made by weaker channelers and enable them to slam a shield into place even if the weaker channeler is holding the One Power. The latter belief is mainly the reason I put Nynaeve at 8.0 rather than 9.0 - personally, I think Rand is strong enough to shield Nyn while she's holding the OP. Placing Rand at 10 (strongest possible channeler), means Nyn would have to be an 8.0. (I think Semi and Mesaana are also at 8.0, but Graendal is only slightly stronger, like 8.2 - I'd also put Sharina's potential there as well, which makes the claim that her potential is greater than Nyn's accurate but doesn't make her exceptionally stronger).
The only other point I disagree on is Lanfear. I've always been of the opinion that the only channelers who are at a 10 strength (effective strength, just as you work with) are Rand and Moridin/Ishamael. I've always put Lanfear at a 9.9, which is just a hair less than Rand. I also have Demandred, Taim, and Logain on that level as well. Demandred is there for obvious reasons (him always being just a bit weaker, shorter, etc. than Lews Therin) and the others fit as well to me. It would also make sense for Lanfear's personality...she was always going off about how she was as good as him, as though she had something to prove. In that respect, she's almost like a female Demandred.
Nynaeve vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
There's been a lot of debate around this, and some posters such as myself believe that Nynaeve is much stronger than Egwene (90 vs 50), and others think they aren't too far apart (90 vs 80).
One can safely fall back on Moiraine's statement that Nynaeve is like a bonfire next to Egwene and Elayne. It's a statement of magnitude, if not of detail, and it at least means something.
I completely agree with this as well. It's been pointed out too many times that Nyn is significantly stronger than Egwene/Elayne/Avi. And though I know there was a time when Nyn couldn't shield Elayne while Elayne was holding the OP, I think that was because Nyn had not reached her potential yet. Now, I think she could slam a shield on Elayne (or Egwene or Avi) while the other was channeling and it would work simply because of brute strength.
Also just one thing I want to point out: I know in another subthread in this thread, you made a comment that Nyn is "weak" in everything but Healing, but I disagree. She is merely untrained and hasn't bothered (until lately) to learn anything else. When she was training with Daigian she was able to repeat every weave Daigian taught her on the first try. That is not a sign of weakness. If anything, I think her strength gives her a natural affinity for channeling, which is why she can copy any weave right off the bat (same with Rand, Logain, and other strong channelers). She just hasn't cared enough to put forth effort in the past.
I'd like your opinion on something too. It's more theoretical crap, so bear with me...
What level had you placed Siuan at pre-stilling? I had her at 2.5 (same as Moiraine) and dropped her to a 1.1 after Nyn Healed her because she still seemed stronger than Daigain (who I have at a 1.0) but was weaker than pretty much every other Aes Sedai (and yes, I'm going somewhere with this). We know that if a man Heals a stilled woman (or a woman Heals a gentled man), the channeler goes back to full strength. I'm of the opinion that when a woman Heals a woman (or man Heals a man) that, rather than dropping to the minimum channeling level, the channeler gets a percentage of his/her power back (say between 45-50%) and that the stronger a channeler is, the closer to the 50% they would reach. So, say Egwene was stilled and then Healed by a woman, she would probably end up around the level Siuan was at before she was stilled, if not just a big lower (cutting her power in half, or just a bit less than half). We're actually using this in a RPG so I'm curious to see your opinion on the matter. Another player felt the character who was stilled and Healed by the someone of the same gender should be around Daigian's strength, if not lower, despite her being stronger in the OP beforehand.
Therefore we can assume the following ...
- Almost all of Egwene's novices are weaker than Daigian. (<37.5% on the bell curve)
- Hundreds of Shaido Wise Ones are as strong as Daigain. (>37.5% on the bell curve)
- 1000 Aes Sedai are stronger than Daigian. (>37.5% on the bell curve)
- This sample of about 3000 channelers shows that about 1/3 of women cannot reach the shawl whereas 2/3 can, just like RJ said.
I agree with all of this.
This once again fits into my own personal theory of female strength...
- Aes Sedai 20 (range 5 - 25)
- Egwene 50
- Nynaeve 90
- Lanfear 100
I've always ranked the channelers on a ten point scale rather than a 100 point scale, but it is easily converted. The average AS strength that I have always believed is almost dead on with yours (a 2.1; i.e., 21 rather than 20). Egwene (and Elayne and Avi) I had pegged at a 5.0, which meshes with yours. Nynaeve, however, I've had at 8.0.
Even with BS's comments regarding there only being six channelers stronger than Nynaeve, I think the 8.0 rating fits because I've always been of the opinion that a one point difference (ten points on your scale) is a fairly significant difference. Two full points of difference would allow the stronger channeler to crush shields made by weaker channelers and enable them to slam a shield into place even if the weaker channeler is holding the One Power. The latter belief is mainly the reason I put Nynaeve at 8.0 rather than 9.0 - personally, I think Rand is strong enough to shield Nyn while she's holding the OP. Placing Rand at 10 (strongest possible channeler), means Nyn would have to be an 8.0. (I think Semi and Mesaana are also at 8.0, but Graendal is only slightly stronger, like 8.2 - I'd also put Sharina's potential there as well, which makes the claim that her potential is greater than Nyn's accurate but doesn't make her exceptionally stronger).
The only other point I disagree on is Lanfear. I've always been of the opinion that the only channelers who are at a 10 strength (effective strength, just as you work with) are Rand and Moridin/Ishamael. I've always put Lanfear at a 9.9, which is just a hair less than Rand. I also have Demandred, Taim, and Logain on that level as well. Demandred is there for obvious reasons (him always being just a bit weaker, shorter, etc. than Lews Therin) and the others fit as well to me. It would also make sense for Lanfear's personality...she was always going off about how she was as good as him, as though she had something to prove. In that respect, she's almost like a female Demandred.
Nynaeve vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
There's been a lot of debate around this, and some posters such as myself believe that Nynaeve is much stronger than Egwene (90 vs 50), and others think they aren't too far apart (90 vs 80).
One can safely fall back on Moiraine's statement that Nynaeve is like a bonfire next to Egwene and Elayne. It's a statement of magnitude, if not of detail, and it at least means something.
I completely agree with this as well. It's been pointed out too many times that Nyn is significantly stronger than Egwene/Elayne/Avi. And though I know there was a time when Nyn couldn't shield Elayne while Elayne was holding the OP, I think that was because Nyn had not reached her potential yet. Now, I think she could slam a shield on Elayne (or Egwene or Avi) while the other was channeling and it would work simply because of brute strength.
Also just one thing I want to point out: I know in another subthread in this thread, you made a comment that Nyn is "weak" in everything but Healing, but I disagree. She is merely untrained and hasn't bothered (until lately) to learn anything else. When she was training with Daigian she was able to repeat every weave Daigian taught her on the first try. That is not a sign of weakness. If anything, I think her strength gives her a natural affinity for channeling, which is why she can copy any weave right off the bat (same with Rand, Logain, and other strong channelers). She just hasn't cared enough to put forth effort in the past.
I'd like your opinion on something too. It's more theoretical crap, so bear with me...
What level had you placed Siuan at pre-stilling? I had her at 2.5 (same as Moiraine) and dropped her to a 1.1 after Nyn Healed her because she still seemed stronger than Daigain (who I have at a 1.0) but was weaker than pretty much every other Aes Sedai (and yes, I'm going somewhere with this). We know that if a man Heals a stilled woman (or a woman Heals a gentled man), the channeler goes back to full strength. I'm of the opinion that when a woman Heals a woman (or man Heals a man) that, rather than dropping to the minimum channeling level, the channeler gets a percentage of his/her power back (say between 45-50%) and that the stronger a channeler is, the closer to the 50% they would reach. So, say Egwene was stilled and then Healed by a woman, she would probably end up around the level Siuan was at before she was stilled, if not just a big lower (cutting her power in half, or just a bit less than half). We're actually using this in a RPG so I'm curious to see your opinion on the matter. Another player felt the character who was stilled and Healed by the someone of the same gender should be around Daigian's strength, if not lower, despite her being stronger in the OP beforehand.
One Power strength - critical analysis of previous posts and some further ideas
03/01/2010 07:59:24 AM
- 2357 Views
I support your view, with maybe a few comments to add...
03/01/2010 02:58:05 PM
- 1072 Views
where is this phantom quote of Egwene "not standing a chance"
03/01/2010 05:20:20 PM
- 770 Views
Here's the real quote
03/01/2010 05:38:59 PM
- 828 Views
Well that quote perfectly illustrates the skewed way in which you interpret the evidence...
03/01/2010 06:18:22 PM
- 792 Views
I also think the quote is specific
03/01/2010 06:34:38 PM
- 795 Views
Skill not Strength is the key that and the potential that another FS was with her
03/01/2010 06:51:46 PM
- 814 Views
Bah
03/01/2010 07:13:01 PM
- 755 Views
Who's arguing that?
03/01/2010 07:34:21 PM
- 727 Views
What ARE you arguing?
03/01/2010 07:43:06 PM
- 797 Views
That there is far more to strength in her quote!
03/01/2010 08:05:20 PM
- 692 Views
Re: That there is far more to strength in her quote!
04/01/2010 09:40:05 AM
- 889 Views
and where do I ever say Elayne is only a small step below Moghedien?
04/01/2010 03:08:37 PM
- 786 Views
You more than imply it with your own list
04/01/2010 03:39:06 PM
- 796 Views
and you are fixated on simple strength to the exclusion of everything else
04/01/2010 05:05:54 PM
- 741 Views
Re: and you are fixated on simple strength to the exclusion of everything else
04/01/2010 06:46:45 PM
- 1131 Views
Tiny Unimportant Objection to "Bell Curve" Point
03/01/2010 03:09:55 PM
- 888 Views
Re: Tiny Unimportant Objection to "Bell Curve" Point
03/01/2010 04:39:25 PM
- 795 Views
I've got a slightly revised opinion than my last post
03/01/2010 05:16:39 PM
- 1000 Views
Re: I've got a slightly revised opinion than my last post
03/01/2010 06:31:09 PM
- 926 Views
It's actually not that complicated ... simple math actually
03/01/2010 07:08:52 PM
- 800 Views
Yes, but to think that RJ put that much effort into it is improbable
03/01/2010 07:19:13 PM
- 801 Views
I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
03/01/2010 07:56:17 PM
- 720 Views
Re: I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
04/01/2010 09:50:38 AM
- 837 Views
Re: I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
04/01/2010 03:26:10 PM
- 909 Views
Re: I'm being harsh with one poster who continues to mis-quote things!
04/01/2010 03:52:19 PM
- 784 Views
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth
04/01/2010 05:09:15 PM
- 731 Views
Dude
04/01/2010 06:21:28 PM
- 685 Views
Dude, please go back to Fionwe's post
04/01/2010 06:35:03 PM
- 729 Views
A reply...
03/01/2010 06:02:33 PM
- 726 Views
The Tower sample is skewed allright, but to the upper side of the strength range...
03/01/2010 06:36:45 PM
- 865 Views
Re: A reply...
03/01/2010 07:09:55 PM
- 856 Views
I think distance is related to Strength
03/01/2010 07:21:46 PM
- 776 Views
I agree with most of this
03/01/2010 08:19:37 PM
- 869 Views
amusing side note
04/01/2010 05:22:39 AM
- 722 Views
Which is exactly what I envisage the AOL distribution to have looked like...
04/01/2010 07:03:51 AM
- 673 Views
Re: Which is exactly what I envisage the AOL distribution to have looked like...
04/01/2010 03:29:47 PM
- 751 Views
It may sound silly, but did you look at One Power values in the Wheel of Time CCG?
05/01/2010 12:56:41 AM
- 1175 Views
Re: It may sound silly, but did you look at One Power values in the Wheel of Time CCG?
05/01/2010 07:33:21 AM
- 824 Views