Magnitude of the One Power strength difference between the strongest and weakest Aes Sedai...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 02/01/2010 03:47:50 PM
Thanks to the efforts of Linda, we have a very accurate One Power strength scale depicting the order of strength among most of the known female channelers in the series. This list consists of 21 levels and currently sits on the 13th depository website.
However, while this list is very good at providing the ORDER of strength among Third Age channelers, Linda herself admits that it in no way attempts to depict the RELATIVE strength of one channeler compared to another. Linda also stresses that the jumps between levels are not necessarily equal, meaning that relative strength cannot be deduced based on the number of levels between two channelers.
What I would like to determine, is how much stronger some channelers are than others. Specifically, modern Aes Sedai occupy many of the 21 levels. It would be very useful to know HOW MUCH stronger some are compared to others. Particularly when one channeler faces multiple opponents of lesser strength, etc.
For instance, how much stronger is strongest Aes Sedai than the weakest one? What is the range of strength that spans all Aes Sedai?
I think we have enough information to make some educated guesses.
For example, the strongest Aes Sedai isn't only 10 or 20% stronger than the weakest one. We can quite definitively say that the strongest Aes Sedai is MANY TIMES as strong as the weakest one. This means that two weak Aes Sedai COMBINED, cannot match a strong Aes Sedai.
I base this on several quotes in the books, starting with New Spring.
In New Spring Siuan states that she and Moiraine would take about 5 years after becoming Aes Sedai before they would reach their maximum potential. And yet, they state that despite being FAR from their maximum strength, they would immediately be closer to the top level than to the bottom. In other words, when they became Aes Sedai, they were already above the average strength Aes Sedai.
And yet, in that same book, Moiraine faces the Black Ajah sister Mereann. Merean is stated as being a strong sister, but still not as strong as Moiraine's full potential. And yet, at the time, Moiraine states that Merean is so much stronger than herself that Merean is able to hold 3 men wrapped in Air while still having enough strength remaining to overwhelm Moiraine at the same time.
Clearly, Merean must be at least half again as strong as Moiraine in New Spring, despite the fact that Moiraine is above the average sister in strength. And yet Merean's level is still below that which Moiraine, Siuan, Romanda, Lelaine and Elaida would eventually reach.
Another clue comes from Siuan after being Healed of stilling. She states that after being Healed she is barely above Dagian in strength. Dagian is the weakest Aes Sedai. Siuan goes on to say that even if she had been Healed to half or two thirds her old strength, many sisters would still be stronger than her.
Basically, Siuan confirms to us that Dagian is significantly below half of Siuan's old strength. Probably as low as a third of Siuan's old strength. This ties in with the Moiraine/Merean example, where Merean is below Siuan's full potential, yet still vastly stronger than an above average Aes Sedai (the newly raised Moiraine.)
What seems quite feasible, is that Dagian is about half as strong as the average Aes Sedai, and about one third as strong as Moiraine, Siuan (full potential), Romanda, Lelaine and Elaida.
That means Moiraine is about 50% stronger than the average sister.
On the 21 level list, Cadsuane is 2 levels above Moiraine. However, we know for a fact that these two levels are not equal in magnitude. We know this because Cadsuane says in New Spring that the next strongest sisters after her are Meilyn and Kerene, after which there is a STEEP DROP to Moiraine and Siuan's level. That means that the drop from Cadsuane to Meilyn is not as great as the drop from Meilyn to Moiraine.
From here on it is pretty difficult to estimate the relative strength. We do know that Egwene is one level above Cadsuane, and that she is strong enough to match Amys and Melaine combined. Amys is almost as strong as Moiraine, and Melaine is stronger than the average sister. So it seems possible that Egwene might well be two and a half times as strong as the average sister, making Moiraine (at half again the average sister)60% as strong as Egwene.
My estimate for modern Aes Sedai - starting at Dagian at a strength of 10 (randomly chosen) is as follows:
10 - Dagian
20 - Average sister
30 - Moiraine, Siuan, Elaida, Lelaine, Romanda
40 - Cadsuane
50 - Egwene
Comments?
However, while this list is very good at providing the ORDER of strength among Third Age channelers, Linda herself admits that it in no way attempts to depict the RELATIVE strength of one channeler compared to another. Linda also stresses that the jumps between levels are not necessarily equal, meaning that relative strength cannot be deduced based on the number of levels between two channelers.
What I would like to determine, is how much stronger some channelers are than others. Specifically, modern Aes Sedai occupy many of the 21 levels. It would be very useful to know HOW MUCH stronger some are compared to others. Particularly when one channeler faces multiple opponents of lesser strength, etc.
For instance, how much stronger is strongest Aes Sedai than the weakest one? What is the range of strength that spans all Aes Sedai?
I think we have enough information to make some educated guesses.
For example, the strongest Aes Sedai isn't only 10 or 20% stronger than the weakest one. We can quite definitively say that the strongest Aes Sedai is MANY TIMES as strong as the weakest one. This means that two weak Aes Sedai COMBINED, cannot match a strong Aes Sedai.
I base this on several quotes in the books, starting with New Spring.
In New Spring Siuan states that she and Moiraine would take about 5 years after becoming Aes Sedai before they would reach their maximum potential. And yet, they state that despite being FAR from their maximum strength, they would immediately be closer to the top level than to the bottom. In other words, when they became Aes Sedai, they were already above the average strength Aes Sedai.
And yet, in that same book, Moiraine faces the Black Ajah sister Mereann. Merean is stated as being a strong sister, but still not as strong as Moiraine's full potential. And yet, at the time, Moiraine states that Merean is so much stronger than herself that Merean is able to hold 3 men wrapped in Air while still having enough strength remaining to overwhelm Moiraine at the same time.
Clearly, Merean must be at least half again as strong as Moiraine in New Spring, despite the fact that Moiraine is above the average sister in strength. And yet Merean's level is still below that which Moiraine, Siuan, Romanda, Lelaine and Elaida would eventually reach.
Another clue comes from Siuan after being Healed of stilling. She states that after being Healed she is barely above Dagian in strength. Dagian is the weakest Aes Sedai. Siuan goes on to say that even if she had been Healed to half or two thirds her old strength, many sisters would still be stronger than her.
Basically, Siuan confirms to us that Dagian is significantly below half of Siuan's old strength. Probably as low as a third of Siuan's old strength. This ties in with the Moiraine/Merean example, where Merean is below Siuan's full potential, yet still vastly stronger than an above average Aes Sedai (the newly raised Moiraine.)
What seems quite feasible, is that Dagian is about half as strong as the average Aes Sedai, and about one third as strong as Moiraine, Siuan (full potential), Romanda, Lelaine and Elaida.
That means Moiraine is about 50% stronger than the average sister.
On the 21 level list, Cadsuane is 2 levels above Moiraine. However, we know for a fact that these two levels are not equal in magnitude. We know this because Cadsuane says in New Spring that the next strongest sisters after her are Meilyn and Kerene, after which there is a STEEP DROP to Moiraine and Siuan's level. That means that the drop from Cadsuane to Meilyn is not as great as the drop from Meilyn to Moiraine.
From here on it is pretty difficult to estimate the relative strength. We do know that Egwene is one level above Cadsuane, and that she is strong enough to match Amys and Melaine combined. Amys is almost as strong as Moiraine, and Melaine is stronger than the average sister. So it seems possible that Egwene might well be two and a half times as strong as the average sister, making Moiraine (at half again the average sister)60% as strong as Egwene.
My estimate for modern Aes Sedai - starting at Dagian at a strength of 10 (randomly chosen) is as follows:
10 - Dagian
20 - Average sister
30 - Moiraine, Siuan, Elaida, Lelaine, Romanda
40 - Cadsuane
50 - Egwene
Comments?
Magnitude of the One Power strength difference between the strongest and weakest Aes Sedai...
02/01/2010 03:47:50 PM
- 3962 Views
Simple proof that you are wrong...
02/01/2010 04:17:25 PM
- 1041 Views
linking gives you a huge advantage for gateways
02/01/2010 04:49:06 PM
- 744 Views
No...
02/01/2010 05:38:52 PM
- 694 Views
Further proof that the Gateway theory on strength is not accurate
03/01/2010 02:08:17 AM
- 612 Views
but....
03/01/2010 09:17:46 AM
- 681 Views
You are talking of a Mixed link
03/01/2010 02:35:01 PM
- 586 Views
Irrespective of what you find "improbable", the rest of us have to stick to the evidence...
03/01/2010 03:11:55 PM
- 582 Views
Who said I was arguing that?
03/01/2010 05:26:34 PM
- 584 Views
You are confusing linking gains in gateways with normal linking gains...
03/01/2010 06:49:04 PM
- 564 Views
That's nonsense. Nothing says other weaves are not similarly enhanced.
03/01/2010 07:29:06 PM
- 611 Views
I agree
03/01/2010 07:33:07 PM
- 561 Views
This begs the question... Why can't four Aes Sedai defeat Rand?
03/01/2010 05:02:32 PM
- 688 Views
Not to mention 1 Beonin can create a gateway 1/4 the size of Rand
05/01/2010 05:22:24 AM
- 615 Views