Wheel of Time Messageboard: I think we're pretty much in agreement by darius

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I think we're pretty much in agreement darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 01/01/2010 09:26:26 PM

Dreadlords were both men and women, it wasn't just darkfriend Aes Sedai... so it wouldn't be right to call them AS, and IIRC, this was before Ishy had formalized the BA, so that didn't fit either.

I don't know if they would be Dreadlords or not... IIRC, RJ flat out said that Dreadlords were a product of the Trolloc Wars and did not exist before that. Now that we have the BA, I don't think we'll see Dreadlords, per se, again.

Well, since there will be Dark Asha'man too, there will be more than just BA running around, and it's not likely the Forsaken will allow for them all to be labeled new Forsaken!

RJ did say that Dreadlords was the name only during the TW ... but that all Dark Channelers were called Forsaken during the WoP ... perhaps Ishy didn't want the new crop to be called Forsaken and came up with a new name ... and IIRC there is a mention in the text of "new Dreadlords" ... but I may just be making that up

Maybe there will be a whole new name for the collective group

I doubt that the meaning of a word would change that much in the 100 years of the Collapse, considering how much the "Good" folks were working to contain the changes the darkfriends were making.

Oh I think 100 years is plenty of time for connotation of a word to shift... look how much different the English language is today from 100 years ago! I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that Aes Sedai would have picked up that additional meaning, especially once there started to be AS Forsaking the Light and thus no longer being AS...

Note that there is no mention of serving the Light, the Creator, or the Pattern.

True it's not spelled out, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Modern AS clearly "serve" something, which is never directly spelled out. IMO the founders of the Tower, fresh from the Breaking and not too long out of the WoP, would have dedicated their service to the Light/Pattern/Humanity etc... after a few hundred years the meaning of the word would have shifted (assuming it hadn't already during the actual WoP).

I continue to go back to the meaning of Asha'man and can't help but think Rand modeled his name criteria after similarities to AS, just like he did the training structure etc... if asha'man are basically guardians of "just" causes (i.e. the light), seems to me that AS could easily be servants of the light. It thematically fits the series as well ... balance of male guardians to female servants ... one serves the light the other protects it.

Anyway it's all speculation

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!

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It just occured to me Etzel - 31/12/2009 10:12:12 AM 1369 Views

I tink they did ursidae - 31/12/2009 10:52:32 AM 657 Views

Yeah, you are right, checked it. For example, Mierin Sedai is mentioned! *NM* Etzel - 31/12/2009 11:02:11 AM 507 Views

Re: It just occured to me Mysteria Indictus - 31/12/2009 11:07:29 AM 657 Views

Yeah, if you compare it to the Catholic Church... Etzel - 31/12/2009 11:34:49 AM 635 Views

Re: Yeah, if you compare it to the Catholic Church... Gerbeaud - 31/12/2009 02:20:32 PM 558 Views

In a democracy though... Silence_DoGood - 31/12/2009 02:38:21 PM 507 Views

Re: Yeah, if you compare it to the Catholic Church... Kieran - 31/12/2009 04:30:58 PM 560 Views

Depends on what the actual translation is... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2009 04:49:54 PM 545 Views

The translation... Phelix - 31/12/2009 06:17:07 PM 522 Views

Look at M'Hael fionwe1987 - 31/12/2009 08:12:35 PM 549 Views

No... Phelix - 31/12/2009 08:19:18 PM 499 Views

And Sedai is not a title? fionwe1987 - 31/12/2009 08:47:03 PM 582 Views

Nope, it is an honorific. Phelix - 31/12/2009 09:31:37 PM 649 Views

You're really splitting hairs... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2010 04:06:02 PM 737 Views

That's why I said I was. Phelix - 01/01/2010 06:19:22 PM 648 Views

My 2 cents... which may only be worth 1

darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 06:39:52 PM 624 Views

I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.

Phelix - 01/01/2010 06:49:25 PM 621 Views

Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.

darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 07:27:57 PM 637 Views

Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.

Phelix - 01/01/2010 07:37:17 PM 603 Views

Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.

darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 08:08:58 PM 639 Views

Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.

Phelix - 01/01/2010 09:05:45 PM 606 Views

I think we're pretty much in agreement darius_sedai - 01/01/2010 09:26:26 PM 624 Views

I'd agree with that.

Phelix - 01/01/2010 10:20:52 PM 571 Views

I think it's a pride of humility thing.... Phelix - 31/12/2009 06:24:17 PM 579 Views

I think it's meant to be more like "public servant" than "household help" or "farmhand" BlackAdder - 31/12/2009 07:11:28 PM 461 Views

They don't care. The meaning of the honorific is irrelevant - all significance comes from context Cannoli - 01/01/2010 06:08:40 AM 542 Views

I Agree Yondaime - 01/01/2010 08:36:40 AM 495 Views

Re: I Agree Watcher - 01/01/2010 03:04:18 PM 489 Views

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<quote id="65953">
<quote>Dreadlords were both men and women, it wasn't just darkfriend Aes Sedai... so it wouldn't be right to call them AS, and IIRC, this was before Ishy had formalized the BA, so that didn't fit either.

I don't know if they would be Dreadlords or not... IIRC, RJ flat out said that Dreadlords were a product of the Trolloc Wars and did not exist before that. Now that we have the BA, I don't think we'll see Dreadlords, per se, again.</quote>

Well, since there will be Dark Asha'man too, there will be more than just BA running around, and it's not likely the Forsaken will allow for them all to be labeled new Forsaken!

RJ did say that Dreadlords was the name only during the TW ... but that all Dark Channelers were called Forsaken during the WoP ... perhaps Ishy didn't want the new crop to be called Forsaken and came up with a new name ... and IIRC there is a mention in the text of "new Dreadlords" ... but I may just be making that up :P

Maybe there will be a whole new name for the collective group :)

<quote>I doubt that the meaning of a word would change that much in the 100 years of the Collapse, considering how much the "Good" folks were working to contain the changes the darkfriends were making.</quote>

Oh I think 100 years is plenty of time for connotation of a word to shift... look how much different the English language is today from 100 years ago!  I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that Aes Sedai would have picked up that additional meaning, especially once there started to be AS Forsaking the Light and thus no longer being AS...

<quote>Note that there is no mention of serving the Light, the Creator, or the Pattern. ;)</quote>

I continue to go back to the meaning of Asha'man and can't help but think Rand modeled his name criteria after similarities to AS, just like he did the training structure etc... if asha'man are basically guardians of "just" causes (i.e. the light), seems to me that AS could easily be servants of the light.  It thematically fits the series as well ... balance of male guardians to female servants ... one serves the light the other protects it.

Anyway it's all speculation :)
</quote>

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