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Actually... Etzel Send a noteboard - 29/12/2009 05:04:54 PM
I never said that any of the theories indicated Graendal was the killer, but they could. My point was that they are more convincing than the one you have presented.


You tried to rebut my point that Graendal already had several PoV without the revelation being killer, that "Graendal's POVs might already contain confirmation of this" [apparently that she killed Asmo). This is wrong.

Anyway, the Graendal theories I read are all pretty illogical (a careful Forsaken like Graendal strolling through the Caemlyn Palace without a disguise?) and largely ignoring what RJ said on this matter (namely that the important clues appear in the books before LoC), or what BS said on this matter (which makes e.g. clear that Asmo wasn't killed with balefire).

By the way, the powers the Shadowspawn have may be unrelated to the True Power or the One Power - Aginor did something in their creation that gave them these abilities; we don't know what or even if they are a result of a combination of those forces or an effect of those forces on certain genetic structures. Just as the Dark One does not seem to have used the True Power to do any of His more powerful version of reality twisting. We basically don't know how they have these abilities. Just because an ability is connected to the OP, TP or the Dark One doesn't mean it is derived from them. A good example is Dreaming, which does not require channeling, or the taint at Shadar Logoth, which is an ancient force of it's own.


Whatever.. The point is that Slayer got several gifts/powers from the DO. You think we don't know how this is possible, while I say reading the books it's obvious that the TP is the reason.

And, IMHO, the Dark One already has far more powerful and silent assassins in Moghedien and Lanfear. It's part of their modus operandi to kill targets using T'A'R and the One Power. More useful than some guy with personality issues and a knife.


Well, when Slayer was created, Moggy & Lanny were still sleeping. Besides that, Moghedien and Lanfear don't ever act as "powerful and silent assassins" in the books.

You might need to re-read the Battle of Two Rivers. Unlike Rand and Mat, Perrin has dealt with Slayer directly, and Slayer was directly assaulting the wolves. There is more tying him to Slayer than the other characters.


But that doesn't mean that Slayer wouldn't fulfill an order by a Forsaken to kill Asmo, like he assassinated Janduin, the BA in the Stone, the Gray Man in the WT, or tried to kill Fain, Nynaeve, Perrin and Rand (except for the last, all these assassinations or assassination attempts happened before Asmo's death).

I just think it is one thing to put forth a theory that may or may not be correct and quite another to say that the theory is obvious. The Slayer theory is unconvincing and it doesn't seem obvious to me. And if the Dark One needed an ultra assassin, and took time to create one, I would say It had too much time on It's hands which is why it's top agents are getting killed left and right.


Well, I think your counterarguments are unconvincing, because most of them don't make much or any sense. But of course, eventually we will see, who was right! ;)
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Fain's Myrddraal Etzel - 28/12/2009 01:45:58 PM 1771 Views
Nope, Myrddraal have been nothing but cannon fodder since book four *NM* Lordling - 28/12/2009 03:01:01 PM 408 Views
except, of course, for Shaidar Haran *NM* darius_sedai - 28/12/2009 03:12:17 PM 416 Views
But what was the purpose then? Etzel - 28/12/2009 03:43:01 PM 751 Views
To show the relationship between Fain and DO Bonden - 28/12/2009 03:52:59 PM 703 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 28/12/2009 04:02:42 PM 707 Views
Re: Maybe... Bonden - 29/12/2009 03:58:57 AM 963 Views
Re: Fain's Myrddraal RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2009 03:19:37 PM 738 Views
Slayer also hunts Rand Etzel - 28/12/2009 03:57:11 PM 747 Views
I think it's possible that Slayer could have killed Asmo darius_sedai - 28/12/2009 04:35:57 PM 658 Views
The explanations Etzel - 28/12/2009 05:06:02 PM 929 Views
Perhaps, I still don't buy it, but if that's the way it turns out I won't be shocked darius_sedai - 28/12/2009 05:20:06 PM 847 Views
Your reaction would be similar to BS's then Etzel - 28/12/2009 05:57:44 PM 1791 Views
I don't really have a strong opinion on which suspect did it darius_sedai - 28/12/2009 06:03:07 PM 660 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/12/2009 06:42:16 PM 728 Views
Indeed *NM* darius_sedai - 28/12/2009 06:55:52 PM 366 Views
Re: The explanations RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2009 08:01:19 PM 602 Views
The case for Graendal was already weak before TGS... Etzel - 28/12/2009 08:13:07 PM 679 Views
Re: The case for Graendal was already weak before TGS... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2009 10:19:24 PM 768 Views
The reason is... Etzel - 29/12/2009 11:58:24 AM 747 Views
The reasoning is very weak. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 03:34:19 PM 731 Views
If you mean... Etzel - 29/12/2009 04:01:25 PM 808 Views
A few points darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 04:14:12 PM 668 Views
You are wrong... Etzel - 29/12/2009 04:25:09 PM 662 Views
Thanks for the quote .. obviously hadn't heard that one before! darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 04:31:37 PM 754 Views
Key word - "possibly" RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 04:38:46 PM 661 Views
As said, if you just compare it to Alviarin's mark, it's clear. Etzel - 29/12/2009 05:06:47 PM 640 Views
Re: As said, if you just compare it to Alviarin's mark, it's clear. darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 06:08:09 PM 598 Views
Well, it protects you of Shadowspawn, not that bad. Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:12:04 PM 642 Views
I don't think what happened to Fain or Slayer are "gifts" darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 06:26:15 PM 568 Views
Slayer calls it "gifts" in his PoV Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:37:49 PM 591 Views
I think you are stretching the reality a bit darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 06:42:10 PM 656 Views
You confuse it a bit... Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:57:07 PM 718 Views
I think you've got it backwards darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 07:12:02 PM 616 Views
However... Etzel - 29/12/2009 07:16:08 PM 658 Views
I wasn't arguing that point darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 08:13:25 PM 879 Views
Some things don't have to be spelled out, if they are that clear... *NM* Etzel - 29/12/2009 08:18:05 PM 603 Views
clearly they do since people are discussing it! darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 09:37:00 PM 591 Views
Yes; it is not readily apparant that the mark was made with the TP. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 06:12:07 PM 655 Views
Sorry, but that is utter nonsense Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:24:54 PM 743 Views
You are incorrect; I'm actually thinking that you only skimmed certain sections! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 06:38:37 PM 706 Views
Simply read the books and what the authors said... Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:55:42 PM 656 Views
Sorry, I think you have an opinion and read everything to support it in this case. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 07:02:42 PM 618 Views
Ok, then we play dumb, if you like... Etzel - 29/12/2009 07:14:58 PM 741 Views
Because the Dark One is not merely a super channeler. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 07:21:21 PM 746 Views
Well, I disagree of course... Etzel - 29/12/2009 07:36:19 PM 866 Views
You are mistaken on quite a few counts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 04:37:51 PM 818 Views
Actually... Etzel - 29/12/2009 05:04:54 PM 729 Views
BWB says... darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 05:48:40 PM 960 Views
Exactly. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 06:12:30 PM 336 Views
Well... Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:18:08 PM 765 Views
Just pointing out that your comment about Lanfear and Moggy not being assassins darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 06:37:21 PM 668 Views
No... Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:47:07 PM 853 Views
Re: No... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 07:00:20 PM 836 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/12/2009 07:10:12 PM 600 Views
So you dismiss the actual assassinations the Forsaken have performed on-screen? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 628 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/12/2009 07:47:57 PM 570 Views
I think any Forsaken is capable of doing it. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 08:05:10 PM 657 Views
Then another Forsaken, e.g. Sammael.. Etzel - 29/12/2009 08:16:50 PM 538 Views
Re: Then another Forsaken, e.g. Sammael.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 09:21:23 PM 630 Views
She kidnapped the Sharan's ... who's to say she hasn't killed others? *NM* darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 08:17:28 PM 346 Views
Yeah, after TFoH! We are looking for clues before LoC, guys! *sigh* Etzel - 29/12/2009 08:31:13 PM 548 Views
Where did I say this was a clue to her doing it? darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 09:58:29 PM 743 Views
I don't say... Etzel - 30/12/2009 12:08:27 PM 801 Views
Most of what you are talking about with Slayer is discoverd after LoC darius_sedai - 30/12/2009 02:36:18 PM 718 Views
Re: Well... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 06:41:29 PM 634 Views
It becomes clear... Etzel - 29/12/2009 06:59:03 PM 563 Views
Basically, you think Slayer killed him. I do not. Nor do I care. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 07:04:20 PM 547 Views
Fair enough. *NM* Etzel - 29/12/2009 07:17:22 PM 398 Views
Re: Slayer also hunts Rand RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2009 04:39:36 PM 813 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/12/2009 04:54:07 PM 645 Views
Re: As said... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2009 07:49:22 PM 640 Views
It's rather the TP, which makes Slayer inhuman... Etzel - 28/12/2009 08:21:20 PM 622 Views
makes you wonder darius_sedai - 28/12/2009 09:45:08 PM 667 Views
Re: makes you wonder RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/12/2009 10:16:57 PM 699 Views
I think... Etzel - 29/12/2009 12:03:41 PM 617 Views
Fain's Myrddraal killed asmo LOL *NM* aldapelan - 29/12/2009 05:26:22 AM 398 Views
It is quite obvious that it was Mistress Laras. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/12/2009 03:35:36 PM 366 Views
Intuitively, even. *NM* Gher - 29/12/2009 06:03:13 PM 361 Views
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