The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM
Let me start out by stating the various facts that we know for certain:
1. OP Strength follows a Bell Curve
1. OP Strength follows a Bell Curve
I suggest you are mixing up your maths. The bell curve is a FREQUENCY DISTRIBUTION of something countable. It cannot be used as a tool to determine the nature of the countable things.
For example, take 3 people (Gawyn, Galad, Elayne) with IQs respectively of 80, 95, 140 (sd = 15, mean = 110). All we can say is that Gawyn has a higher IQ than 2% of the population, Galad has a higher IQ than 16% of the population and Elayne has a higher IQ than 84% of the population.
We cannot say what IQ means by contemplating the standardised curve. We cannot say that Gawyn and Galad are (together) smarter than Elayne. We cannot if IQ of 80 is sufficient to play stones. If we know these things, we know for other reasons.
To "solve" the power issue you simply need to construct formulae and solve. Given that we rely on terms such as "nearly", "twice" and so on, there is a big margin to play with. Using a scale is a good idea, however it should be linear. Standardising to 0-100 adds complexity, suggests log or exp values, and may be source of your misplaced use of the bell curve.
Once you had formula and data sorted out, then you could use normal distribution to say things. For example, you might say "gee, there is a real lack of strong women from Seanchan. What's the chance this occurs randomly? 0.001%! There is something odd afoot, I think."
Is there a list anywhere of every RJ quote on relative strengths? I'd love to look thru.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates
- 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM
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Few glaring errors...
- 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM
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Re: Few glaring errors...
- 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM
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You don't get it, do you...
- 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM
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Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear?
- 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM
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What you are missing is that
- 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM
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I'm not missing it at all..
- 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM
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Let's try matching that with the actual text
- 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM
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Not correct...
- 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM
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Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence
- 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM
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You're reading the evidence wrong.
- 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM
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RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy
- 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM
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I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH
- 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM
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Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range...
- 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM
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Corrections
- 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM
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No...
- 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM
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True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM*
- 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM
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Not if you point out that the average AS is not as strong as the overall average channeler
- 25/12/2009 04:30:17 AM
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yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers
- 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM
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Perhaps...
- 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM
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I've always hated bell curves
- 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM
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The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average...
- 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM
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and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve
- 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM
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Why?
- 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM
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Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the
- 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM
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Always go back to the evidence...
- 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM
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I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this
- 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM
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I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments
- 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM
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And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem
- 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM
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I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM
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Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength...
- 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM
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Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength...
- 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM
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I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength
- 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM
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How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM
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Seriously go re-read the series, how can you have missed that Traveling is a Talent?
- 23/12/2009 04:54:51 PM
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It is a weave, the knowledge of which guarantees that you can use it, if you are strong enough...
- 23/12/2009 05:35:36 PM
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Yet every AS can Heal to a degree and Cloud Dancing involves weaves too
- 23/12/2009 05:41:42 PM
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Lews Therin can't Heal. Aginor can't Heal. If you don't have the Talent, you can't do it. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
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LTT and Aginor have "Little Ability" with Healing
- 23/12/2009 06:02:13 PM
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Because the channelers THEMSELVES don't use Healing to judge each other's strength...
- 23/12/2009 06:06:58 PM
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The Channelers state that there is a minimum level of strength to make the Weave work
- 23/12/2009 06:11:55 PM
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No, it makes her 25% as strong as Rand! Thanks for proving my model to be virtually perfect!
- 23/12/2009 06:36:53 PM
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This is true, however...
- 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM
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Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it...
- 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM
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Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation
- 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM
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Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule...
- 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM
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I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling
- 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM
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Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM*
- 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM
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Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then?
- 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM
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And there you have it...Thank you.
- 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM
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And linked with Romanda and Lelaine
- 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM
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Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM
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No more than yours is!
- 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM
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Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM
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Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population *NM*
- 26/12/2009 12:41:01 PM
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Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM
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Goodness
- 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM
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I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author
- 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM
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No you are not
- 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM
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Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this
- 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM
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The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution
- 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM
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And RJ knew his maths (and you don't)
- 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM
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I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution
- 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM
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