traveling *is* still a type of talent. Even people that are considered strong in the one power can have difficulties opening up those 4X4pace gateways, when others of the same strength are able to do it with ease. In example: Aviendha now has to use her *entire* strength to open up a gateway that is still smaller than what Elayne is able to create. Now, we know that Aviendha is able to travel normally, without using her entire strength, but she completely forgot how to create the weave she used to instaport to Seandar/Seanchan.
This proves to me that TRAVELING, i.e. the standard weave, is something able to be done by everyone strong enough, and much like the ACTs, some people do better with it than others, even though those that do poorly can be just as intelligent. To go along with this metaphor, Aviendha's hastily erected weave, say the "SATs" of traveling, worked very well for her and would probably work well for several others (we haven't met any specifically) that have problems with the "ACT" method.
The main problem with 3rd age travelers comes from their lack of innovation; most of the Aes Sedai refuse to think anything is possible if they don't already have a weave (or they say it is some lost marvel, never to be seen again, from the AoL). In the Age of Legends, where research was paramount, there might have been as many versions of the traveling weave as there was numbers of channelers strong enough to implement it. Where does it say in the text that all of the forsaken use the *exact* same weave? As long as the basic method of female/male is intact (folding the pattern/boring a hole in the pattern) then the methodology is up to the creativity of the weaver.
thoughts?
This proves to me that TRAVELING, i.e. the standard weave, is something able to be done by everyone strong enough, and much like the ACTs, some people do better with it than others, even though those that do poorly can be just as intelligent. To go along with this metaphor, Aviendha's hastily erected weave, say the "SATs" of traveling, worked very well for her and would probably work well for several others (we haven't met any specifically) that have problems with the "ACT" method.
The main problem with 3rd age travelers comes from their lack of innovation; most of the Aes Sedai refuse to think anything is possible if they don't already have a weave (or they say it is some lost marvel, never to be seen again, from the AoL). In the Age of Legends, where research was paramount, there might have been as many versions of the traveling weave as there was numbers of channelers strong enough to implement it. Where does it say in the text that all of the forsaken use the *exact* same weave? As long as the basic method of female/male is intact (folding the pattern/boring a hole in the pattern) then the methodology is up to the creativity of the weaver.
thoughts?
This message last edited by lyringlas on 23/12/2009 at 05:01:49 PM
I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates
- 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM
1498 Views
Few glaring errors...
- 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM
1062 Views
Re: Few glaring errors...
- 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM
1011 Views
You don't get it, do you...
- 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM
983 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear?
- 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM
855 Views
What you are missing is that
- 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM
925 Views
I'm not missing it at all..
- 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM
952 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text
- 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM
914 Views
Not correct...
- 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM
998 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence
- 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM
896 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong.
- 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM
901 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy
- 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM
895 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH
- 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM
974 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range...
- 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM
1001 Views
Corrections
- 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM
1038 Views
No...
- 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM
925 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM*
- 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM
679 Views
Not if you point out that the average AS is not as strong as the overall average channeler
- 25/12/2009 04:30:17 AM
900 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers
- 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM
872 Views
Perhaps...
- 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM
976 Views
I've always hated bell curves
- 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM
898 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average...
- 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM
934 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve
- 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM
765 Views
Why?
- 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM
916 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the
- 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM
814 Views
Always go back to the evidence...
- 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM
971 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this
- 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM
871 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments
- 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM
906 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem
- 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM
891 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM
943 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength...
- 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM
925 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength...
- 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM
1025 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength
- 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM
911 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM
496 Views
Seriously go re-read the series, how can you have missed that Traveling is a Talent?
- 23/12/2009 04:54:51 PM
821 Views
It is a weave, the knowledge of which guarantees that you can use it, if you are strong enough...
- 23/12/2009 05:35:36 PM
908 Views
Yet every AS can Heal to a degree and Cloud Dancing involves weaves too
- 23/12/2009 05:41:42 PM
923 Views
Lews Therin can't Heal. Aginor can't Heal. If you don't have the Talent, you can't do it. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
522 Views
LTT and Aginor have "Little Ability" with Healing
- 23/12/2009 06:02:13 PM
974 Views
Because the channelers THEMSELVES don't use Healing to judge each other's strength...
- 23/12/2009 06:06:58 PM
869 Views
The Channelers state that there is a minimum level of strength to make the Weave work
- 23/12/2009 06:11:55 PM
1031 Views
No, it makes her 25% as strong as Rand! Thanks for proving my model to be virtually perfect!
- 23/12/2009 06:36:53 PM
846 Views
This is true, however...
- 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM
959 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it...
- 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM
1284 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation
- 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM
992 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule...
- 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM
831 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling
- 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM
836 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM*
- 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM
470 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then?
- 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM
867 Views
And there you have it...Thank you.
- 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM
887 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine
- 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM
868 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM*
- 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM
475 Views
No more than yours is!
- 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM
883 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM
890 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population *NM*
- 26/12/2009 12:41:01 PM
456 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population
- 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM
896 Views
Goodness
- 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM
899 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author
- 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM
839 Views
No you are not
- 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM
899 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this
- 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM
861 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution
- 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM
883 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't)
- 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM
921 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution
- 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM
879 Views


