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RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM
How much can 6 foot 6 man weigh? Do you think either Rand or Lan could possibly weigh more than 225lbs? According to the national heart institute a healthy man of 6 feet 6 inches should weigh in at less than 215lbs to have an acceptable BMI. Assuming Rand and Lan are more muscular than average that still won't put them over 230lbs, and probably less as swordsmanship would be difficult for a man who was too bulky.

As for Sea folk, even assuming they are tiny, let's say 5'2" the NHI says 125lbs is about right... so no I'm not completely guessing at this. Unless you think Rand and Lan are both freakishly overweight and the WF insanely tiny.

Lanfear vs. Egwene's circle... they both all female so E/R/L would be stronger regardless and be of similar dexterity. Lanfear would likely still kick their butts as she managed Alivia with angreal who would have been even stronger than that circle of 3! I don't see why people seem to forget that Cyndane wiped the floor with a woman who must have been at least 2x stronger than she was simply because she was more skilled.

You have no basis or proof that Egwene is "much weaker" than Nynaeve, RJ himself has stated that level to be "one step below" Forsaken strength! If one step below = 50% as strong that's one hell of a step!


I've shown it to you countless times, but you refuse to accept the facts. Alivia is a poor example, because RJ himself said that Lanfear only matched her because Alivia has so little knowledge of the Power. A male Forsaken would not have that handicap.

I come back to the simple comparison. Lanfear has to be AT LEAST of similar strength to Egwene, Lelaine and Romanda combined. Because it all comes down to EFFECTIVE strength. And Lanfear's EFFECTIVE strength, has to match the effective strength of a male Forsaken, which must AT LEAST match the effective strength of Egwene's circle.

That fits the evidence. Your inflated model does not.


Lanfear knows more about the power than Egwene and her circle could hope too. What you are saying here is that Lanfear would have to be equal or better to take out a stronger modern day opponent. That's ridiculous. They are like children in comparison, note that not one of the Forsaken has ever shown fear from strength alone... Cyndane noted Alivia's strength, knew she had ter'angreal as well as an angreal and her first thought was that she may still be able to take down a woman likely more than 2x, probably even 3x or 4x, stronger whom the weaves could not directly touch! If they needed to be close to equal to face off Cyndane would have given a big girly scream and Traveled out of the vicinity immediately.

Quit screaming about effectiveness, there is more to the OP than strength/dexterity. And I still haven't seen a quote or an example from the text showing Egwene to be any weaker than 85% of Nynaeve. Where is this phantom evidence that Egwene is only an "Average level" woman? Quantify your argument if you can.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM 1260 Views
There are 21 levels, not 100. More later. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/12/2009 07:23:18 PM 440 Views
RJ has said a number of times that the 21 level scale darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 07:35:25 PM 661 Views
Few glaring errors... Shannow - 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM 845 Views
Re: Few glaring errors... darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM 816 Views
You don't get it, do you... Shannow - 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM 748 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear? fionwe1987 - 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM 635 Views
That only strengthens my point. Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM 680 Views
No it does not. fionwe1987 - 28/12/2009 02:45:42 AM 731 Views
What you are missing is that darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM 690 Views
I'm not missing it at all.. Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM 716 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 693 Views
Not correct... Shannow - 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM 783 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM 681 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong. Shannow - 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM 663 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM 620 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH redhand - 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM 741 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range... Shannow - 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM 781 Views
Corrections Shadowkiller - 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM 795 Views
No... Shannow - 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM 686 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM* Shadowkiller - 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM 568 Views
Not if you point out that the average AS is not as strong as the overall average channeler darius_sedai - 25/12/2009 04:30:17 AM 653 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM 668 Views
Perhaps... Phelix - 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM 733 Views
I've always hated bell curves Ryan - 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM 683 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average... Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM 676 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM 559 Views
Why? Shannow - 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM 690 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM 606 Views
Always go back to the evidence... Shannow - 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM 763 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM 676 Views
Name an item you dispute and I will provide the quote.... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:19:49 PM 649 Views
it's addressed below darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:23:58 PM 660 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments darius_sedai - 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM 697 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM 668 Views
Nice! It proves what I've been saying for ages... fionwe1987 - 29/12/2009 10:13:41 PM 697 Views
Which is why I contend that they are about 80% of Lanfear darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 10:16:07 PM 655 Views
I wasn't trying to rip him a new one. Phelix - 22/12/2009 09:38:43 PM 587 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 704 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... Shannow - 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM 704 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM 797 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM 695 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM 410 Views
Seriously go re-read the series, how can you have missed that Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 04:54:51 PM 596 Views
It is a weave, the knowledge of which guarantees that you can use it, if you are strong enough... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:35:36 PM 681 Views
Yet every AS can Heal to a degree and Cloud Dancing involves weaves too darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:41:42 PM 717 Views
Lews Therin can't Heal. Aginor can't Heal. If you don't have the Talent, you can't do it. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 400 Views
LTT and Aginor have "Little Ability" with Healing darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:02:13 PM 722 Views
Because the channelers THEMSELVES don't use Healing to judge each other's strength... Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:06:58 PM 658 Views
The Channelers state that there is a minimum level of strength to make the Weave work darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:11:55 PM 815 Views
Beonin's Gateway darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:30:25 PM 666 Views
No, it makes her 25% as strong as Rand! Thanks for proving my model to be virtually perfect! Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:36:53 PM 635 Views
Nope, Beonin shouldn't be that strong! darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:48:30 PM 632 Views
This is true, however... lyringlas - 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM 722 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM 957 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM 754 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule... Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM 603 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM 641 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM 374 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM 667 Views
And there you have it...Thank you. Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM 651 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM 642 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM 384 Views
No more than yours is! darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM 683 Views
That entire passage is in the context of strength... Shannow - 23/12/2009 07:55:50 PM 588 Views
You need to re-read some of this stuff darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 11:01:15 PM 726 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM 660 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population *NM* Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:41:01 PM 351 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM 642 Views
Goodness Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM 686 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM 634 Views
Since you love Wiki so much darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:55:09 AM 645 Views
No you are not Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM 687 Views
Dude we're discussion works of fiction darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 04:08:12 AM 708 Views
Dumb Bell Distribution of Mongoloid Turings Abunderment - 31/12/2009 04:36:50 AM 764 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM 615 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM 643 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't) Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM 690 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM 641 Views
You are the one who is MIS-USING his statement Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:44:26 AM 642 Views
darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:48:20 AM 947 Views
The pathos of Darius Abunderment - 31/12/2009 04:26:15 AM 667 Views
Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) knightmarea7x - 29/12/2009 12:46:13 AM 587 Views
Re: Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 04:21:47 PM 653 Views
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