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That only strengthens my point. Shannow Send a noteboard - 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM
I'm being generous. Because if Egwene plus Lelaine and Romanda cannot match a male Forsaken, then they should be EVEN LOWER on the strength scale than I am arguing.

The truth is that AT MOST Egwene plus Lelaine and Romanda can match a male Forsaken. Egwene was far from certain that they could. In fact, her actual words were something along the lines of "She doubts that herself, Lelaine and Romanda (the three strongest Aes Sedai in the camp) could match a male Forsaken.

Now, on Darius's list, Egwene plus Romanda on their OWN would exceed Lanfear. since Egwene is on 80 and Romanda is on 50 it means that together they are at 130, which is far greater than Lanfear who is at 100. Even after a 10% linking loss they are still stronger than Lanfear. And that's without even adding Lelaine into the mix.

So, if Lanfear is comparable to a male Forsaken, then Darius's model falls apart completely. ESPECIALLY if Egwene plus Lelaine Plus Romanda combined are still weaker than a male Forsaken.

So I am being generous by giving those three women the benefit of the doubt when reading Egwene's statement. And even by doing this, Darius's model is disproven.

The simple point is that if Egwene, Lelaine and Romanda together would be hard pressed to match a male Forsaken, then how can Egwene and Romanda (without Lelaine) exceed Lanfear?

They cannot, and that is one of the many indications that Darius has placed modern Aes Sedai far too high up on the ladder. And this has a domino effect on his placings, because if you drop the likes of Moiraine and Lelaine, then you have to drop Egwene as well. Which is the correct thing to do, because Egwene is not close to 80% of Lanfear's strength. It is laughable to suggest it.

She is in fact around 50% of Lanfear's strength. THAT is the model that fits the evidence best.
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I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates - 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM 1362 Views
There are 21 levels, not 100. More later. *NM* - 20/12/2009 07:23:18 PM 489 Views
RJ has said a number of times that the 21 level scale - 20/12/2009 07:35:25 PM 752 Views
Few glaring errors... - 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM 942 Views
Re: Few glaring errors... - 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM 899 Views
You don't get it, do you... - 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM 849 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear? - 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM 740 Views
That only strengthens my point. - 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM 768 Views
No it does not. - 28/12/2009 02:45:42 AM 829 Views
What you are missing is that - 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM 784 Views
I'm not missing it at all.. - 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM 814 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text - 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 786 Views
Not correct... - 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM 882 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence - 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM 780 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong. - 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM 762 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy - 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM 714 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH - 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM 846 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range... - 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM 871 Views
Corrections - 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM 895 Views
No... - 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM 775 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM* - 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM 609 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers - 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM 758 Views
Perhaps... - 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM 839 Views
I've always hated bell curves - 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM 774 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average... - 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM 765 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve - 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM 649 Views
Why? - 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM 782 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the - 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM 693 Views
Always go back to the evidence... - 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM 846 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this - 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM 762 Views
Name an item you dispute and I will provide the quote.... - 23/12/2009 05:19:49 PM 743 Views
it's addressed below - 23/12/2009 05:23:58 PM 748 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments - 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM 788 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem - 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM 762 Views
Nice! It proves what I've been saying for ages... - 29/12/2009 10:13:41 PM 790 Views
Which is why I contend that they are about 80% of Lanfear - 29/12/2009 10:16:07 PM 765 Views
I wasn't trying to rip him a new one. - 22/12/2009 09:38:43 PM 677 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 815 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... - 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM 797 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... - 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM 908 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength - 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM 791 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM* - 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM 448 Views
This is true, however... - 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM 818 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it... - 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM 1090 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation - 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM 859 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule... - 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM 704 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling - 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM 730 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM* - 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM 413 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? - 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM 749 Views
And there you have it...Thank you. - 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM 740 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine - 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM 740 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM* - 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM 423 Views
No more than yours is! - 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM 769 Views
That entire passage is in the context of strength... - 23/12/2009 07:55:50 PM 653 Views
You need to re-read some of this stuff - 23/12/2009 11:01:15 PM 836 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM 757 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM 747 Views
Goodness - 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM 773 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author - 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM 728 Views
Since you love Wiki so much - 31/12/2009 03:55:09 AM 737 Views
No you are not - 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM 772 Views
Dude we're discussion works of fiction - 31/12/2009 04:08:12 AM 801 Views
Dumb Bell Distribution of Mongoloid Turings - 31/12/2009 04:36:50 AM 863 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this - 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM 711 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution - 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM 747 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't) - 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM 786 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution - 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM 737 Views
You are the one who is MIS-USING his statement - 31/12/2009 03:44:26 AM 741 Views
- 31/12/2009 03:48:20 AM 1034 Views
The pathos of Darius - 31/12/2009 04:26:15 AM 770 Views
Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) - 29/12/2009 12:46:13 AM 685 Views
Re: Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) - 29/12/2009 04:21:47 PM 757 Views

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