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Re: I've discussed this before... Sidious Send a noteboard - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM
I think little or no weight is placed on the bell curve. Which is weird since it is one of the two mathematical facts we know about channeling. Ignoring its implications is not going to help solve this very contentious issue.

I've explained in depth above. Suffice it to say that I think we'll have to place someone like Anaiya or Myrelle at strength 50 for RJ's statement to hold true.

That brings a question... how is it then that three women of her strength cannot shield Rand?

I think the simple answer is that women cannot easily shield men and vice versa. Which is why some think a circle of thirteen is absolutely necessary for Aes Sedai to shield Rand.

Nothing says that three women of Anaiya's strength are not stronger than Rand linked. Heck, four women of Alise's strength or thereabouts form gateways larger than Rand's! This does not mean they can shield him.

This neatly explains why Rand is certain he can be shielded by three women only if one was Semi or Moggy (even Egwene would suffice to make a circle of three dangerous to Rand, I suspect). It also explains why three Aes Sedai, one of them Daigian, can shield Semirhage easily. And why someone like Silviana can easily hold Egwene.


Seriously, a circle of thirteen would have a strength of 650 - do you really need to be six times stronger than someone to cut them off from the Source? We've seen already that high level channelers can shield one another, even at the same strength, so it makes no sense that this would require some insane boost.

Linking has a clear advantage in all aspects of the Power. The fact that it takes three or four of these women to link to Travel is the first blight on the theory that women cluster around 50 strength. The average woman is weak in the Power - only a fraction of Rand's strength. Rand himself can make six gateways of huge dimensions, and these women need a community to make one. There's nothing vague about it.
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 8258 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 1595 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1583 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1389 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1506 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1075 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 1483 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1364 Views
Indeed, and not only that Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1069 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1142 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 750 Views
why? darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1190 Views
Re: why? Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1268 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1234 Views
and yet RJ does Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1142 Views
Re: and yet RJ does darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1022 Views
Re: and yet RJ does Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1111 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1227 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 970 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 923 Views
Meh... Sidious - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 930 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 980 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1239 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1190 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1098 Views
Let's work with your figures... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1035 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1029 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 709 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1130 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1159 Views
the obvious answer darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1020 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1042 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Logain - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 975 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1155 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1230 Views
I think all the main characters were forced Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1136 Views
agreed! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1051 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1060 Views
What? Where? *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1118 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1039 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1017 Views
Don't links amplify stength? BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 954 Views
The opposite, actually. Phelix - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1059 Views
Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength Logain - 17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM 968 Views
Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM 1156 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Logain - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1191 Views
It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM 1175 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1090 Views
Agreed! *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 630 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1165 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1116 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1343 Views
uhm.... yes she knows Oberonus - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1182 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1067 Views
yup *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 586 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1146 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1334 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1085 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1024 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1053 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1060 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? Logain - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 986 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 948 Views
Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM 927 Views
Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM 970 Views
Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM 1001 Views
Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM 1001 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* Cannoli - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 636 Views
I'll check *NM* Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 605 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... Shannow - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1113 Views
No people just interpret things differently darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 920 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 863 Views
I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM 568 Views
You also forget something. Phelix - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 952 Views
Re: You also forget something. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 975 Views
Re: You also forget something. Phelix - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1000 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 960 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 877 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 921 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 902 Views
I cannot. That's the point... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 929 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 932 Views
Sorry, but no... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 972 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... Shannow - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1453 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 936 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 841 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 879 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 933 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 897 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 835 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 902 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 968 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 904 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 982 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1003 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1065 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1002 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 980 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 907 Views
Explain one thing to me... Shannow - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 924 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 541 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. Shannow - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 882 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 934 Views
Can you provide the quote? fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 843 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1023 Views
which is also suspect darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 945 Views
No it's not Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 917 Views
we're in agreement darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 867 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 947 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 915 Views
I don't think it's a lie BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 968 Views
Agreed Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 921 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 902 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 877 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 925 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 982 Views
I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 973 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 950 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 928 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 960 Views
Why are you entertaining this? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 937 Views
The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM 584 Views
Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength. fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM 950 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 951 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 953 Views
of course it's about skill darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 942 Views
Not it isn't! Sidious - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 971 Views
If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM 894 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... everynametaken - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1054 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. Heiko - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1175 Views
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