but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels.
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM
based on nothing other than you believing that Lanfear is more than 2x stronger than Elayne... there is no evidence that she is that much stronger. The 1-100 system plays no part in the text or in any quote I've ever seen from RJ.
In fact the best evidence we have of how much stronger she is than Egwene is Moiraine's estimation that Egwene and Aviendha combined could match Lanfear. This makes Lanfear less than 2x these women as neither is at 100% strength when this quote is made.
The next best thing we have is that it takes 3 AS (one very weak the others above average) to hold Semirahge's shield. And 2 to hold Egwene's. Again, making Egwene more than 50% of these women.
Based on this I believe Egwene to be closer to 75% the strength of the Forsaken. I haven't seen a quote or a quantifiable Channeling experience to convince me that she is any weaker.
As for "typical" or "average" AS, I do think the majority of the Tower women are much much weaker than Egwene et al. As in less than 50% of Egwene. But those in the upper ranks are consistently pointed to as strong, even by women who have been around the Forsaken level channelers.
Elayne comments any number of times that Sheriam level and there abouts is strong for a woman. There are plenty of "not many women possessed so much strength" when she discusses this tier of women... and of the women in the series she would know, having been exposed to Kin, WO, damane, AS and Forsaken she's seen a vast cross-section of female strength. However, even these women are farther from Egwene than Egwene is from Nynaeve...
Egwene lifted 3 women high above a ship while shielding 2 of them with little effort, this is about the same amount of weight Siuan claims was once her MAXIMUM. Egwene was not even pushed by this.
The shielding of Sheriam alos points to this. Egwene slaps a shield on Sheriam with no effort at all. Nynaeve on the other hand had trouble shielding Elayne... no doubt she CAN shield her, but she obviously has to put effort into the shield or it CAN fail.
In fact the best evidence we have of how much stronger she is than Egwene is Moiraine's estimation that Egwene and Aviendha combined could match Lanfear. This makes Lanfear less than 2x these women as neither is at 100% strength when this quote is made.
The next best thing we have is that it takes 3 AS (one very weak the others above average) to hold Semirahge's shield. And 2 to hold Egwene's. Again, making Egwene more than 50% of these women.
Based on this I believe Egwene to be closer to 75% the strength of the Forsaken. I haven't seen a quote or a quantifiable Channeling experience to convince me that she is any weaker.
As for "typical" or "average" AS, I do think the majority of the Tower women are much much weaker than Egwene et al. As in less than 50% of Egwene. But those in the upper ranks are consistently pointed to as strong, even by women who have been around the Forsaken level channelers.
Elayne comments any number of times that Sheriam level and there abouts is strong for a woman. There are plenty of "not many women possessed so much strength" when she discusses this tier of women... and of the women in the series she would know, having been exposed to Kin, WO, damane, AS and Forsaken she's seen a vast cross-section of female strength. However, even these women are farther from Egwene than Egwene is from Nynaeve...
Egwene lifted 3 women high above a ship while shielding 2 of them with little effort, this is about the same amount of weight Siuan claims was once her MAXIMUM. Egwene was not even pushed by this.
The shielding of Sheriam alos points to this. Egwene slaps a shield on Sheriam with no effort at all. Nynaeve on the other hand had trouble shielding Elayne... no doubt she CAN shield her, but she obviously has to put effort into the shield or it CAN fail.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 18/12/2009 at 12:19:20 AM
The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM
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I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM
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Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM
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Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM
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Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM
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Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM*
17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM
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why?
17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM
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Re: why?
17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM
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I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point
17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM
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and yet RJ does
17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM
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No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM
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Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM
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Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM
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Let's work with your figures...
17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM
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Re: Let's work with your figures...
17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM
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You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM*
17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM
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Re: two women holding Nynaeve
17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM
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Re: two women holding Nynaeve
17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM
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I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block.
17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM
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but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential
17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM
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What? Where? *NM*
18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM
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I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books
18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM
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Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM
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Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM
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What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM
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It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai...
17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM
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Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM
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Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM
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uhm.... yes she knows
17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM
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Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him
17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM
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And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai.
17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM
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How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that?
17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM
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Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was.
17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM
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Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger
17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM
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Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM
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Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM
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Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM*
17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM
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This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use...
17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM
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But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM
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I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger
*NM*
17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
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You also forget something.
17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM
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That has nothing to do with what I said...
18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM
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Re: That has nothing to do with what I said...
18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM
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Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai".
18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM
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Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM*
18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM
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I cannot. That's the point...
18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM
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The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15...
17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM
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but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels.
18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM
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In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM
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Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM
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What do you mean, relative scale?
18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM
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OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me
18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM
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1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range...
18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM
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Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative
18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM
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The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM
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Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM
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Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM
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You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence...
18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM
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Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate...
18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM
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Explain one thing to me...
18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM
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Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM*
18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM
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Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote.
18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM
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which is also suspect
19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM
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OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then.
18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM
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Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM
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Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM
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I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM
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Re: I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM
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Re: I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM
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Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM
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Why are you entertaining this?
18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM
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The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM*
18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM
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Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength.
18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM
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Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM
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I can't imagine it being about skill
19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM
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of course it's about skill
19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM
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Not it isn't!
19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
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If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam
19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM
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