Wheel of Time Messageboard: They were losing at Dumai's Wells. That's why they had to tie off Rand's shield by Cannoli

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They were losing at Dumai's Wells. That's why they had to tie off Rand's shield Cannoli Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 08:18:32 PM

The Aes Sedai at Dumai's Wells did not link

So what? No one was trying to shield THEM, they were just trying to blast them. A link would be as useless as Cadsuane suggests when they are in the bubble-of-evil fog in the Cairhienin rebel camp. A sister is strong enough to kill people, so a link would take a dozen strong-enough guns and reduce them to a single overkill-gun. And some strength is lost in a link. The point is, linking offers no real advantage in a pitched battle, which is why the sisters did not even bother.

(except for those who held Rand's shield).

No, they didn't. They were holding six seperate shields (or one shield with six components) on him, otherwise, they would not have been able to tie off their portions. There would still have been one shield (one soft point), but it would have weakened as each sister was released from the link.

Furthermore, the AS at Dumai's Wells did just fine against the Shaido Wise Ones. The only thing that beat them was the Asha'man and we see that the Asha'man greatly outnumbered the AS. Mazrim Taim brought practically every abled-body he could find that could channel.

And they showed up rather late. The gradual departure of the sisters from Rand's shield shows that they were becoming increasingly pressed and in need of more help. Taim saved the Tower sisters more than he rescued Rand, since without his intervention, they would have been overrun. Once Rand broke out, all he had to do was Skim home, but he was pissed and looking for payback.

You contradict yourself from your first paragraph. With shields utterly useless, the only thing left for the Seanchan will be to try to kill the AS. At that point, the AS can fight back. And as we saw from Egwene, it is rather easy to stop ALL attacks from the Seanchan when you are in a linked circle.

So they would still take the first hits. Their numbers would be reduced before they could ever strike back, and that is not good when you are facing a force that has superior numbers AND training.

If you don't like circles of 13, or as you put it, you like more little guns, then circles of 10 or 9 AS would be just as good. That would still be utterly unstoppable, and if the AS used circles of 9 or 10 they could increase their number of total circles considerably.

UnSHIELDable, NOT unstoppable. Fireballs & lightning bolts don't do less damage just because they are hitting someone who is linked to another channeler!

And that is exactly why the AS linked could use deadly force. The Seanchan would have no way to stop the AS except to try to kill them.

And they would have no problem with that! Killing channelers is the next best thing to collaring them. If they cannot collar channelers, their priority is not "Let them live so we might harvest them another day" but "kill them, because the worst thing ever is a loose mareth'damane." The whole premise implicit in the notion that the inability to be shielded would be some sort of insurmountable advantage for the Aes Sedai, is that the Seanchan will ONLY try to shield them, and would not kill them. In fact, they would do so happily.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*

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Learning traveling will help the Seanchan, but the AS still have the advantage. Logain - 17/12/2009 01:13:32 AM 1292 Views

Bryne will without a doubt be in charge darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 01:28:02 AM 650 Views

Re: Learning traveling will help the Seanchan, but the AS still have the advantage. randfandom - 17/12/2009 01:39:32 AM 787 Views

Linking provides another benefit. Logain - 17/12/2009 02:02:05 AM 718 Views

Wow, if that happens, I will be her biggest fan

*NM* BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 02:10:01 AM 411 Views

Me too! Destroying the White Tower would make even me like Egwene. *NM* Cannoli - 17/12/2009 11:36:03 AM 345 Views

Ideally, both would be destroyed! Along with the rest of Randland. Muahahahahaha!! BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:40:55 AM 652 Views

What an utterly stupid idea. Cannoli - 17/12/2009 11:35:24 AM 679 Views

Your facts are incorrect. Logain - 17/12/2009 02:41:42 PM 695 Views

They were losing at Dumai's Wells. That's why they had to tie off Rand's shield Cannoli - 17/12/2009 08:18:32 PM 639 Views

There is a way to get around the "first strike" limitation. BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 05:25:05 PM 615 Views

The army of Night, fighting against the Seanchan Empire, surely have linked channelers redhand - 18/12/2009 04:34:52 AM 1211 Views

Is that the Superpower they're looking for all along? *NM* BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 02:02:25 AM 320 Views

No, the superpower is the "atomic bomb-like" weapon at the Kin's farm that melted sand. Logain - 17/12/2009 03:10:01 AM 714 Views

it was Elayne who failed to unravel the weave, not Avi *NM* Jim - 17/12/2009 08:14:34 PM 398 Views

another linking advantage Kieran - 17/12/2009 02:10:56 AM 596 Views

All that will do is take the best fighters out of action. Cannoli - 17/12/2009 11:55:55 AM 642 Views

I have to agree with Cannoli on this, but with a twist. Logain - 17/12/2009 02:46:03 PM 702 Views

Why mace of air? BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 05:58:32 PM 617 Views

I can't compete with deathgates to outer space, but damane can be rehabilitated. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:10:17 PM 565 Views

So can soldiers. Lots of Taraboners, Altarans, etc in Seanchan army. BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 10:08:32 PM 594 Views

Oh, yes. Because damane NEVER fight soldiers, and would thus ignore them.

Cannoli - 17/12/2009 09:00:41 PM 578 Views

Re: All that will do is take the best fighters out of action. randfandom - 17/12/2009 07:38:55 PM 551 Views

Re: All that will do is take the best fighters out of action. Cannoli - 17/12/2009 08:49:28 PM 522 Views

Re: All that will do is take the best fighters out of action. Kieran - 19/12/2009 06:10:26 PM 825 Views

Do you really think the Aes Sedai would let them control the circles if they had a say? Cannoli - 21/12/2009 08:23:46 PM 643 Views

Re: Do you really think the Aes Sedai would let them control the circles if they had a say? Kieran - 22/12/2009 02:04:11 AM 543 Views

Why did you post this? Light in the Night - 17/12/2009 09:35:09 AM 696 Views

I have not read Darius Sedai's post. Sorry. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 02:49:20 PM 323 Views

What post are you talking about? Logain - 17/12/2009 04:57:14 PM 504 Views

Re: What post are you talking about? darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:31:06 PM 625 Views

Here it is Light in the Night - 18/12/2009 12:42:45 AM 577 Views

I actually brought it up in an earlier thread too

*NM* darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 12:46:56 AM 314 Views

thanks for the credit... PS I'm a guy *NM* darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 12:10:56 AM 344 Views

Ooops

Light in the Night - 18/12/2009 12:48:22 AM 596 Views

I'm totally teasing you ... I added the "sedai" to be snarky darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 12:55:51 AM 985 Views

Yeah, I don't get that: Fantasy gender-nuetral honorific, plus Real World male name = female? Cannoli - 18/12/2009 05:35:17 AM 650 Views

Cannoli sedai?

*NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 02:15:18 PM 596 Views

what about the oaths blue1 - 17/12/2009 01:24:57 PM 642 Views

The oaths stand as no bar. Logain - 17/12/2009 02:48:32 PM 618 Views

Asha'man can' link either and they didn't have a problem moving an army Jim - 17/12/2009 08:16:48 PM 678 Views

Rand's campaign lasted more than a week. The AS could move the entire army in 5 minutes. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:28:40 PM 677 Views

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<quote id="62404">
<quote> The Aes Sedai at Dumai's Wells did not link </quote>  So what?  No one was trying to shield THEM, they were just trying to blast them.  A link would be as useless as Cadsuane suggests when they are in the bubble-of-evil fog in the Cairhienin rebel camp.  A sister is strong enough to kill people, so a link would take a dozen strong-enough guns and reduce them to a single overkill-gun.  And some strength is lost in a link.  The point is, linking offers no real advantage in a pitched battle, which is why the sisters did not even bother.

<quote>(except for those who held Rand's shield).  </quote> No, they didn't.  They were holding six seperate shields (or one shield with six components) on him, otherwise, they would not have been able to tie off their portions.  There would still have been one shield (one soft point), but it would have weakened as each sister was released from the link.

<quote>Furthermore, the AS at Dumai's Wells did just fine against the Shaido Wise Ones.  The only thing that beat them was the Asha'man and we see that the Asha'man greatly outnumbered the AS.  Mazrim Taim brought practically every abled-body he could find that could channel.</quote> And they showed up rather late.  The gradual departure of the sisters from Rand's shield shows that they were becoming increasingly pressed and in need of more help.  Taim saved the Tower sisters more than he rescued Rand, since without his intervention, they would have been overrun.  Once Rand broke out, all he had to do was Skim home, but he was pissed and looking for payback.

<quote>You contradict yourself from your first paragraph.  With shields utterly useless, the only thing left for the Seanchan will be to try to kill the AS.  At that point, the AS can fight back.  And as we saw from Egwene, it is rather easy to stop ALL attacks from the Seanchan when you are in a linked circle.  </quote> So they would still take the first hits.  Their numbers would be reduced before they could ever strike back, and that is not good when you are facing a force that has superior numbers AND training.

<quote>If you don't like circles of 13, or as you put it, you like more little guns, then circles of 10 or 9 AS would be just as good.  That would still be utterly unstoppable, and if the AS used circles of 9 or 10 they could increase their number of total circles considerably.</quote> UnSHIELDable, NOT unstoppable.  Fireballs & lightning bolts don't do less damage just because they are hitting someone who is linked to another channeler!

<quote>And that is exactly why the AS linked could use deadly force.  The Seanchan would have no way to stop the AS except to try to kill them.  </quote>  And they would have no problem with that!  Killing channelers is the next best thing to collaring them.  If they cannot collar channelers, their priority is not "Let them live so we might harvest them another day" but "kill them, because the worst thing ever is a loose mareth'damane."  The whole premise implicit in the notion that the inability to be shielded would be some sort of insurmountable advantage for the Aes Sedai, is that the Seanchan will ONLY try to shield them, and would not kill them.  In fact, they would do so happily. 
</quote>

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