Re: Does Traveling TO a place make you "know" that place?
Jim Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 08:12:23 PM
But in tGS, Sanderson seems to introduce a new concept, which to me contradicts what we've known of Traveling so far. He says that by making a "short" gateway to an area within sight of him, Rand "learns" his current location and can therefore Travel from it to anywhere.
In other words, Sanderson is saying that by Traveling TO a location, you automatically come to know it and can therefore Travel from it again immediately.
I think this is wrong, and here is my evidence to back this up:
I think it's just something that LTT knew that Rand finally learns from him.
At Dumai's Wells, Taim/Rand refers to the fact that his Ashaman will have to wait a few hours to get to know their current area in order to make a gateway back to the city. Some have argued that the Ashaman may not have Traveled directly to the circle of wagons, and thus could not have learned that exact location through the opening of their gateways, but I am pretty sure that the Ashaman Traveled directly to the area where Rand was held prisoner.
It's because they believe that they need to spend the time there to learn it.
Secondly, in tGS Rand Travels to Ituralde. However, when he makes a gateway to prove that he is the Dragon Reborn, he makes one for Skimming, as proven by the fact that it is a dark hole into nothing, according to Ituralde. This would be because although Rand Traveled to Arad Doman, he hasn't been there long enough to know the location yet. So he can't Travel from there yet and has to make a Skimming gateway.
He still hasn't gotten that little piece of info from LTT yet, so he still believes that he needs to wait to form a gateway for Travelling, so instead he makes a gateway for Skimming.
Thirdly, in CoS, Rand Travels to Illian to attack Sammael. Immediately after he steps through his gateway, he opens a "short" gateway to Travel to Sammael's location. Rand then specifically comments that "you didn't need to know your location if you were only going to Travel a short distance." This implies very strongly that if it wasn't a "short distance" he wouldn't be able to make a gateway immediately.
Again, Rand still believes he needs to learn a location by spending time there.
And fourthly, in an answer to a fan question, RJ says that Rahvin was surprised in his palace by Rand, because he did not expect Rand to realise that he could Travel short distances "even if he did not know his current location". Now, since Rahvin would expect Rand to arrive by Traveling, this can only imply that according to Rahvin, you don't learn a place by Traveling TO it.
I think most of that shock came from Rahvin not expecting Rand to Travel straight to the throne room. Rahvin expected Rand to move through the Palace with his army step by step, triggering the other traps Rahvin had laid out for him, not skip all of that and leave his troops behind.
To me the series has made it pretty clear that you do not know a place simply because you make a gateway to it. Instead, if you close your gateway, you have to wait a number of hours to learn the location again, before you can Travel FROM it.
One discrepancy is Sammael's visit to Graendal's palace, in LoC. He Travels there, and closes his gateway. Their ensuing meeting last for half an hour at most, before Sammael opens another gateway to leave.
I can only assume that Sammael has Traveled there before, and therefore already knew the place sufficiently well to make a gateway from it without waiting.
I am raising this issue, because it is perplexing. Either Sanderson has made a mistake, or I am interpreting the previous evidence incorrectly.
Personally, I can't see Sanderson making something up that's not a part of the notes, or Harriet, or Maria, allowing something like this to slip through.
Might I just add that if learning the location of a place was that easy (by simply making a short gateway first) then no one would ever have needed to use the slower and less efficient method of Skimming. The purpose of Skimming as explained by Asmodean was solely to enable Traveling when you don't know your current location.
Asmodean didn't fully throw in with Rand and therefore didn't tell him everything. Another example of this would be the fact that Asmodean's weave to make Avi's gateway invisible made it impossible to see through, which doesn't happen at any other time. Rand uses it to hide Egwene, in LoC, but she can still see the AS coming to visit Rand, and he uses it again, in PoD, to hide from Maidens and Cadsuane after the attack on his rooms and can see through it.
Also, given that Skimming is in some way related to T'A'R it's likely that there are other things you can do while Skimming that might make the extra time spent traveling worthwhile.
So what's the deal here?
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Does Traveling TO a place make you "know" that place?
- 17/12/2009 08:46:39 AM
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Here you go from RJ himself
- 17/12/2009 09:23:44 AM
673 Views
Is that a substantiated quote about Nynaeve, because I've never seen it before...
- 17/12/2009 09:30:37 AM
619 Views
As far as I can remember
- 17/12/2009 09:55:01 AM
567 Views
How about Galina remembering Ashaman leaping out of holes in the air at Dumai's Wells?
- 17/12/2009 09:58:41 AM
577 Views
Re: How about Galina remembering Ashaman leaping out of holes in the air at Dumai's Wells?
- 17/12/2009 08:14:14 PM
533 Views
Mark should remember this
- 17/12/2009 10:23:34 AM
675 Views
Well that pretty clearly states that according to Rahvin, Rand should not know the ground in Caemlyn
- 17/12/2009 10:27:18 AM
607 Views
IIRC
- 17/12/2009 10:38:30 AM
527 Views
Actually...
- 17/12/2009 10:41:54 AM
537 Views
*NM*
I think it's a contradiction
- 17/12/2009 09:53:31 AM
621 Views
I just searched for the Rahvin quote - and it turns out, RJ adressed it to YOU!
- 17/12/2009 10:14:24 AM
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I could have sworn that had been mentioned multiple times in the books. *NM*
- 17/12/2009 06:59:15 PM
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Re: Does Traveling TO a place make you "know" that place?
- 17/12/2009 08:12:23 PM
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