Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid?
Onarishma Send a noteboard - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM
Seonid's comment is made right after Perrin had just told her all of the information. Her words are absolutely true, her intent was sarcastic.
Cadsuane's words were sarcastic, with truth as the intent.
I don't refuse to see anything, it's crystal clear what the intention of all of this is ... my argument is in the way the Oath is worded... not that AS shouldn't be capable of sarcasm...
For example:
If Siuan was unable to exaggerate her situation to someone who knew damn well that it was an exaggeration. If intent was the only thing that mattered she should have been able to do this just as easily as Cadsuane did.
IMO the Oath should still prevent an AS from wording sarcasm as outright lies... she should have been forced to say this in a different way, such as "Thank you for that keen observation"
Cadsuane's words were sarcastic, with truth as the intent.
I don't refuse to see anything, it's crystal clear what the intention of all of this is ... my argument is in the way the Oath is worded... not that AS shouldn't be capable of sarcasm...
For example:
If Siuan was unable to exaggerate her situation to someone who knew damn well that it was an exaggeration. If intent was the only thing that mattered she should have been able to do this just as easily as Cadsuane did.
IMO the Oath should still prevent an AS from wording sarcasm as outright lies... she should have been forced to say this in a different way, such as "Thank you for that keen observation"
A word derives it's meaning from two or more people agreeing to what it means. In some instances that means the tone dictates the meaning as much as the basic sounds.
The sky is blue. The sky is blue! and The sky is blue? all mean different things. same words. If you change the word blue to green. Only one of them would be a lie. If we were to make a punctuation for sarcasm you would accept the indicator of tone and how it changes the meaning of the words.
Seonid's tone indicated that not only was MOST of Perrin's information INTUITIVE but that the vital information had already been shared previously. So it WAS a lie that she would not have known that information if Perrin hadn't told her. The very premise of sarcasm is to claim ignorance or need of enlightenment while making it clear that you are not ignorant or are more enlightened than the person you are speaking to. You can not have sarcasm without a lie.
Cadsuane lies!
06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM
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Re: Cadsuane lies!
06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM
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Sarcasm is one thing
06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM
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I disagree
06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM
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RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM
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How does that jive with the Oaths?
06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM
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Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM*
06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM
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Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying
06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM
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The Oaths focus on INTENT
06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM
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Because it isn't a lie
06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM
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I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM
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Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM
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Quote for you
06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM
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The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to.
07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM
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That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement
07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM
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sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie.
07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM
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Not at all the case
07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM
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Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid?
14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM
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What about the Sheriam thing?
07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM
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Re: What about the Sheriam thing?
07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM
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But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet.
07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM
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Sarcasm
06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM
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It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like
06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM
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Here is what RJ said about it
06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM
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Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM*
06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM
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Agreed.
07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM
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You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter?
07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM
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what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case?
07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM
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in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate
07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM
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But how would the machine reading indicate?
07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM
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Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive
09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM
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Where's the problem?
09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM
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It's in the way the Oath is worded
09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM
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PS You misread my original quote
09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM
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Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning
09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM
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We are starting understand each other
09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM
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