See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM
Pardon me if this comes off as rude, as that is not my intention. I just want to keep focused.
You allege:
I ask you to support that statement. Can you describe a hypothetical situation in which the ability to use sarcasm could be deliberately used to lie?
You allege:
...an AS can lie if she couches it in sarcasm...
I ask you to support that statement. Can you describe a hypothetical situation in which the ability to use sarcasm could be deliberately used to lie?
She flat out speaks untrue words. The Oath does not say "I will not lie" it says "I shall not speak a word that is not true"... there is a difference.
I am not alleging that an AS should be unable to use sarcasm, I'm saying sarcasm should not allow her to speak untrue words.
Obviously she would be prevented from lying in anyway if she herself didn't believe her words. I have admitted time and again above that I agree that the Intent is a necessary point, but given the wording of the Oath, intent alone is allowing Cadsuane to break her Oath to not speak untrue words. And her words were undoubtedly untrue.
It's really only a short step from this to rationalization of other statements... what this implies is that an AS can in fact lie, as long as she believes her audience won't believe her. For instance:
Romanda, knowing that Egwene is wearing a red dress in full view of everyone in the camp, can claim Egwene's dress is in fact yellow, because obviously everyone knows the real truth? I think we both know that should not be possible.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Cadsuane lies!
06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM
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Re: Cadsuane lies!
06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM
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Sarcasm is one thing
06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM
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I disagree
06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM
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RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM
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How does that jive with the Oaths?
06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM
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Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM*
06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM
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Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying
06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM
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The Oaths focus on INTENT
06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM
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Because it isn't a lie
06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM
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I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM
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Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM
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Quote for you
06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM
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The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to.
07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM
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That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement
07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM
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sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie.
07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM
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Not at all the case
07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM
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Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid?
14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM
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What about the Sheriam thing?
07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM
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Re: What about the Sheriam thing?
07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM
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But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet.
07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM
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Sarcasm
06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM
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It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like
06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM
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Here is what RJ said about it
06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM
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Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM*
06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM
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Agreed.
07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM
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You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter?
07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM
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what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case?
07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM
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in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate
07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM
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But how would the machine reading indicate?
07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM
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Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive
09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM
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Where's the problem?
09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM
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It's in the way the Oath is worded
09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM
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Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded
09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM
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See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one
09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM
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PS You misread my original quote
09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM
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Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning
09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM
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We are starting understand each other
09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM
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