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Joiya was bullshitting anyway. She couldn't possibly betray her Oaths. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 02:46:13 AM
After all, we have the Black Ajah quote about their orders to capture Taim and turn him to the Shadow, which was only attempted around book 2 or thereabouts.

So indications are that he was a normal false Dragon just like Logain, before that point.


The plan was not to capture him, it was to free him and proclaim him the Dragon...

The Shadow Rising
Questioners

Joiya shrugged. "As you wish. Let me see. Different words. The false Dragon, Mazrim Taim, who was captured in Saldaea, can channel with incredible strength. Perhaps as much as Rand al'Thor, or nearly so, if the reports can be believed. Before he can be brought to Tar Valon and gentled, Liandrin means to break him free. He will be proclaimed as the Dragon Reborn, his name given as Rand al'Thor, and then he will be set to destruction on such a scale as the world has not seen since the War of the Hundred Years."

A couple of other things we can gather from this quote...

1. Joiya has seen reports on how powerful Taim can channel. Since no AS would know this before Joiya and company left the Tower, how do the BA people know?

Seems obvious that the BA had witnessed Taim's power and had reported back at some point.

2. The plan assumes that Taim "a normal FD" would be willing to be re-proclaimed and commit all kinds of atrocities under a false name!

Seems obvious that Taim was already a dark friend IMO, here we have a super powerful male channeler who is going to play decoy? Maybe he was turned by 13 and 13, but it seems likely that this happened before he raised himself up as a False Dragon the first time.

It seems very likely that Taim was trained by Ishamael before the events of the series.
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Is Demandred able to transpose his personality onto his servants, with a Compulsion type of weave? Shannow - 06/12/2009 07:26:44 AM 1381 Views
I Think It's Just a Natural Reaction. The Name With No Man - 06/12/2009 10:05:47 AM 653 Views
IMO RJ shot down Taimandred in order to surprise us. But you make good points. *NM* Lord Haart - 06/12/2009 10:17:56 AM 415 Views
Personally I think... Etzel - 06/12/2009 10:48:40 AM 644 Views
I not only agree with your Arangar theory, I think it is undoubtedly true... Shannow - 06/12/2009 11:55:25 AM 665 Views
Indeed Etzel - 06/12/2009 01:10:49 PM 559 Views
I posted a theory at the old wotmania that maybe he is "linked" to Demandred. Tom - 06/12/2009 03:23:09 PM 529 Views
Very plausible, except BlackAdder - 06/12/2009 05:39:41 PM 538 Views
Why is Taim believed to be directed by Moridin? Shannow - 06/12/2009 05:55:44 PM 575 Views
Re: Why is Taim believed to be directed by Moridin? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:00:15 PM 598 Views
If you base it on Osangar, then you should also say Moridin was in charge of Egwene... Shannow - 06/12/2009 06:04:37 PM 699 Views
Re: If you base it on Osangar, then you should also say Moridin was in charge of Egwene... Sidious - 06/12/2009 06:16:58 PM 638 Views
You miss my point entirely... Shannow - 06/12/2009 06:24:05 PM 546 Views
Re: You miss my point entirely... Sidious - 06/12/2009 06:31:30 PM 565 Views
Agreed ... this seems just a hangover from Taimandred theory to me darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:33:32 PM 635 Views
Moridin didn't EXIST when Taim first arrived in Caemlyn... Shannow - 06/12/2009 06:37:42 PM 643 Views
Re: Moridin didn't EXIST when Taim first arrived in Caemlyn... Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:11:19 PM 622 Views
very well said darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:15:22 PM 540 Views
A few points... Shannow - 06/12/2009 07:24:09 PM 499 Views
You are making an assumption that Demandred could have done all this is a few months darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:18:43 PM 493 Views
Yes, I am assuming that... Shannow - 06/12/2009 08:34:40 PM 550 Views
But you are missing a couple of key points darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 02:12:04 AM 627 Views
Joiya was bullshitting anyway. She couldn't possibly betray her Oaths. fionwe1987 - 07/12/2009 02:46:13 AM 562 Views
Yes Sidious - 07/12/2009 04:26:21 AM 517 Views
While I agree on most of it I have to ask how Taim picked up AoL mannerisms unless darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:48:41 PM 497 Views
Re: While I agree on most of it I have to ask how Taim picked up AoL mannerisms unless Sidious - 07/12/2009 04:39:05 PM 607 Views
Re: While I agree on most of it I have to ask how Taim picked up AoL mannerisms unless Lord Haart - 07/12/2009 05:25:42 PM 529 Views
I'll have to go back and check, but I could have sworn there was an Aiel thing too darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 09:14:29 PM 451 Views
and let's not forget all the old tongue titles he throws around darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 07:07:56 PM 466 Views
Start a new line of posts so it's easier to read. Thanks. *NM* BlackAdder - 08/12/2009 05:40:41 AM 256 Views
An alternate theory on his AOL mannerisms... Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:08:50 PM 500 Views
Where did I say any of that? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:20:24 PM 611 Views
Actually... Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:19:36 PM 553 Views
Taim is wearing Moridin's livery at the end of KoD. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 01:56:09 AM 528 Views
No Sidious - 06/12/2009 06:10:42 PM 605 Views
Why Cyndane? Skeeve the Great - 06/12/2009 06:17:02 PM 496 Views
Re: Why Cyndane? Sidious - 06/12/2009 06:24:14 PM 706 Views
So, where DO you place Demandred, then? Shannow - 06/12/2009 07:52:05 PM 548 Views
Re: So, where DO you place Demandred, then? Sidious - 07/12/2009 04:21:22 AM 589 Views
Besides... Etzel - 07/12/2009 12:05:16 PM 522 Views
100 Ashaman, plus the Dragonsworn, plus the Whitecloaks, plus Murandy would be an achievement... Shannow - 07/12/2009 12:49:31 PM 521 Views
Probably over 100, plus he picks the most powerful of them. Lord Haart - 07/12/2009 02:34:25 PM 471 Views
An alternate explanation - Fain's influence Lord Haart - 12/12/2009 04:19:49 PM 615 Views
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