If she had said she hadn't noticed outright without any sarcasm then it would be more debatable.
Her statement, sacrastic or not is still a lie... how does this not violate the 1st Oath?
It doesn't matter what words she uses, the binder caught on her intent, on the meaning she was giving her words, which was altered by her tone. Aes Sedai can make a completely false statement if they believe they're telling the truth. It's similar with sarcasm: they are saying one thing, and mean something else. By using a clearly sarcastic tone, Cadsuane made those words mean something else, something which was "true".
She wasn't trying to hide her meaning. By the tone, these words meant something like "everyone in Bandar Eban knows that", which isn't a lie. Not a shred of an attempt to deceive in there. RJ made it very clear the first Oath doesn't hinder Aes Sedai from using sarcasm and exageration at all as long as they don't intend to hide the sarcasm in order to deceive (he gave the example of a blind person asking the colour of something. AS could not answer sarcastically for that, but if the person saw normally they could use sarcasm and say "it's obviously black" - their words meaning "what sort of question is this, you can see as well as I it's white"
. In these cases, it's all about intent. They can mislead by omission too, because the oath stops them from speaking out lies, but doesn't force them to finish statements. They mean to say one thing and end up saying another by stopping in the middle.
Aes Sedai can speak hypothetically - in that case they are bound by the letter of the oath: presenting a true hypothesis without regard for the fact they hope it will be taken for a certainty (as Sarene did with Semirhage: it was a chance in a million that Elaida (or Egwene) would be convinced the woman knew too much to be executed, but that chance in a million was enough for Sarene to say "we may be able to convinced her to lessen your punishments" etc.). There the intent is to deceive, but the "may" makes the statement hypothetically true, so the binder doesn't stop that either.
This message last edited by DomA on 06/12/2009 at 08:09:12 PM
Cadsuane lies!
- 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM
2256 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies!
- 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM
1454 Views
Sarcasm is one thing
- 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM
1172 Views
I disagree
- 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM
1122 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic
- 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM
1074 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths?
- 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM
1136 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM*
- 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM
519 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying
- 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM
1177 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT
- 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM
1115 Views
Because it isn't a lie
- 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM
1109 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
- 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM
1083 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic
- 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM
1122 Views
Quote for you
- 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM
1058 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to.
- 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM
886 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement
- 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM
949 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie.
- 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM
900 Views
Not at all the case
- 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM
982 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid?
- 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM
1064 Views
What about the Sheriam thing?
- 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM
977 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing?
- 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM
862 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet.
- 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM
1087 Views
Sarcasm
- 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM
1135 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like
- 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM
927 Views
Here is what RJ said about it
- 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM
1084 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM*
- 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM
468 Views
Agreed.
- 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM
886 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter?
- 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM
920 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case?
- 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM
857 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate
- 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM
888 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate?
- 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM
891 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive
- 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM
933 Views
Where's the problem?
- 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM
833 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded
- 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM
895 Views
PS You misread my original quote
- 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM
826 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning
- 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM
967 Views
We are starting understand each other
- 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM
930 Views


