Re: The Seanchan would see this as a good first step
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 06/12/2009 05:30:48 PM
How big are these wagons anyways?
Pretty damn big from the descritions we've gotten like "a house on wheels". In a war effort they would be more for carrying heavy artillery items like catapults etc. The other thing we know is that most individuals are not able to open Gateways large enough for even a cart to fit through, which would seem to indicate less than a 6'x6' (my estimate).
They have been searching for clues since the explosion. They haven't found any because the weave does not exist. Collared AS inform them that they know nothing about the weave. The former leader of the White Tower while being collared, informs them that she knows nothing of the weave. Either the whole Seanchan hierarchy is incredible dense, or they have to start having some inclination that maybe the weave doesn't exist.
They aren't really dense since they've seen the weave! They aren't going to throw away what their own eyes have shown them on the word of a few damane... ex-leader or not, they are just as likely to think that it's a secret weave only the Green ajah knows, or that there perhaps that it was the rebel faction that created it ... there are too many alternative explanation for them to simply decide that the weapon doesn't exist.
This is known for fact?
here's a quote from KoD
Even thinking about that made Karede shudder. Taken in the abstract, it might seem a wonderful thing, wounds undone in moments, but he thought he would need to be near death before he would let anyone touch him with the Power.
Clearly even a high ranking general and leader of the personal bodyguard of the soon to be empress isn't even comfortable with the idea of being healed. He does go on to at least consider what he would have done if he thought it could save his wife's life, but he is also a high ranking officer who works hand in hand with the sul'dam.
Elaida is going to break very easily.
As per the questions her interrogator will ask... what were the reasons for the raid again?
As per the questions her interrogator will ask... what were the reasons for the raid again?
We'll have to disagree on this point. But even if you are correct it's not like there is much new information (weaves aside) that she will give up that's going to be super useful to the Seanchan. Oh sure maybe she knows something from the 13th that will be earth shattering news in ToM, but I seriously doubt it... personally I think Elaida just went the way of Galina Casban, off to her exile for being a grade-A douche!
Egwene would seem to disagree with you.
No she doesn't, I didn't ever say the Tower should think of this as a victory or even a minor loss... IMO the Tower should absolutely think of this as the worst disaster in the history of the Tower. They let down their guard and allowed an enemy force to attack the Tower itself, carry off initiates and what amounts to state secrets.
You seem to be here when you say;
"Considering this a huge success rather than a draw is not IMO an accurate accounting of the facts involved.
"Considering this a huge success rather than a draw is not IMO an accurate accounting of the facts involved.
That's viewing it from the Seanchan side of the coin.
I just don't believe the Seanchan should be patting themselves on the back from their side of it. I don't think they should look at it as more than a minor success. They didn't achieve all of their goals, they lost significant numbers of highly trained weapons in exchange for raw materials (which will in the long run gain them less powerful weapons).
Their biggest victory IMO is the fact that they were able to do it at all! If they view it from a "holy cow it worked" stand point then yes, it was successful.
The Seanchan go on a raid, and along with everything else they gain, they come out with the leader of the White Tower.
Imagine Rand raiding the Seanchan and coming back with Tuon. How could he not possibly think of that as a great success.
Elaida would have solid working knowledge of the reds system. Other AS taken would have knowledge of their own systems (at least to some degree). The Seanchan have a solid understanding of various AS spy networks.
Imagine Rand raiding the Seanchan and coming back with Tuon. How could he not possibly think of that as a great success.
Elaida would have solid working knowledge of the reds system. Other AS taken would have knowledge of their own systems (at least to some degree). The Seanchan have a solid understanding of various AS spy networks.
Just like the rest of the world they know full well that there are divided factions amongst the AS. They know that all they've done is capture one of the leaders, and she's rather insane!
Elaida's capture is by no means as huge as Tuon being captured. They won't attempt to use her for political gain the way others would have. She's just another damane to them. IMO information gained from Elaida will be tainted from her crazed world view!
Spy networks are pretty common so I don't see how capturing Elaida is some key to this? She had a small personal network based mainly throughout Andor... the Ajahs certainly didn't share names or network secrets with anyone outside of the few people who ran the networks! So realistically the Seanchan learned what? That there are common folk with pigeons sending information to various people at the WT? The Seanchan would have to be fatally stupid to have needed Elaida to tell them that
I agree that the WT has finally woke up, and it would probably make for an interesting fight, but I don't see it happening with TG around the corner.
No I doubt we'll see it in the books.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
The Seanchan attack and the upcoming round 2
29/10/2009 11:39:16 PM
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I don't see it happening that way
30/10/2009 12:00:09 AM
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IMO the Seanchan take over Randland, but Rand forces them to drop the damane practices.
04/12/2009 05:58:56 PM
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I think they'll see it as a draw or minor victory
04/12/2009 11:33:16 PM
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Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan
05/12/2009 06:15:37 AM
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Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan
05/12/2009 07:19:31 AM
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Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan
05/12/2009 08:03:53 AM
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Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan
05/12/2009 05:40:51 PM
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Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan
05/12/2009 09:27:23 PM
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The raid could have been far more successful
05/12/2009 10:13:07 PM
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Re: The raid was hugely successful
06/12/2009 01:08:44 AM
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nope
06/12/2009 02:47:49 AM
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Re: Egwene's words
06/12/2009 07:12:59 AM
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The Seanchan are likely to feel the same way Egwene did
06/12/2009 07:54:38 AM
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Re: The Seanchan would see this as a good first step
06/12/2009 10:32:55 AM
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Re: The Seanchan would see this as a good first step
06/12/2009 05:30:48 PM
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