Wheel of Time Messageboard: The Seanchan are likely to feel the same way Egwene did by darius

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The Seanchan are likely to feel the same way Egwene did darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 06/12/2009 07:54:38 AM

Didn't you just claim that he could make a gate of 12 by 12?

Which isn't going to be big enough to fit a full Wagon. Seriously there is no way a damane alone could manage it.

Villages that appear and disappear, men who die with huge amounts of bugs crawling out of them, food going bad in a blink of an eye, huge explosions. There has been a whole lot of weird things going on in Rand land. With the Amyrlin of the white tower not knowing anything about a super weapon, or any other of their captives knowing anything about it, some suspicion about the root cause is going to occur. There is no way possible that they don't start doubting the super weapon existence.

I disagree. Not one of these things is connected to Channeling. And the Seanchan have witnessed the use of this weapon, or at least they think they have! There is no way that a few days of "I don't knows" from untrustworthy AS is going to convince them that they didn't actually lose a company of people to some secret weapon.

Unconscious soldiers are not going to object to strenuously. Not to mention a good portion of the Seanchan army originates in the Westland.

If that was the case it would have already have begun. It's not been happening, better weaves aren't going to change that. And the common folk of Randland, especially in places like Amadicia, are uncomfortable with the thought of being touched by the OP too.

Perhaps the average villager seeing the AS as vulnerable might lessen the awe the AS have gone out of their way to instill. Why was the white tower trying to cover up all their blunders if there would be no ill effect?

As per Elaida, she will be spilling everything she knows withing days or hours of capture, not months.

I just do not see how hidden histories will do anything to help the Seanchan... at best it reinforces their belief that AS are manipulators. The 13th is all about what the AS hid from a handful of Nobles and other AS.

Yes, every other AS in the series has held it together for weeks or more, but Elaida the megalomaniac who will believe for quiet a while that rescue will come will be broken in a few hours. Her interrogation will be all about the weapon in any case... I'd be shocked if she 1. Thought to mention it or 2. has spent enough time in her few months with access to know anything that could be useful to them.

In Egwene's words;

"She'd fought. She'd been glorious and destructive, the Amyrlin of judgment and fury, Green Ajah to the core. And still, the Tower had burned. And still, more to'raken had escaped than had fallen. The count of wounded among those she'd gathered was somewhat encouraging. Only three novices and one Aes Sedai dead, while they'd gathered ten damane and killed dozens of soldiers. But what of the other floors?

The White Tower would not come out ahead in this battle.

She captured or killed almost an equal number of channelers as the damane, she killed 30 raken and who knows how many soldiers. ON the numbers they are close to even.

But this day would still mark one of the greatest
disasters in the history of the Aes Sedai."

Who is denying that? I'm saying only that the Seanchan should not (and IMO will not) view this as a decisive victory. It's a loss to the Tower from Tower POV, it's the first time the Tower itself has been breached, initiates carried off etc..., but it cost the Seanchan dearly to accomplish it and Tuon herself knows that she needed a crippling blow to the Tower since she is in her mind declaring war on Rand with this raid.

Gaining gateways is in no way a minor thing.
Knowing the procedures of various AS spy networks no minor thing.
Instilling fear that the White Tower is vulnerable no minor thing.

You say this over and over, and I'm not denying that gateways are useful. Merely not as potent for the Seanchan as they could be since they can't link. I think the Seanchan will be disappointed by what they gained for the cost.

Now you believe the Seanchan have also gained full procedural knowledge from Elaida? Give me a break, the woman herself had barely a clue on how things really worked around her!

As for fear, I'd say they just pulled a Pearl Harbor and have awoken the beast... the WT is now going to be quick to focus on stopping the Seanchan rather than looking at them as a far away and future problem.

I'd say the only thing they are gaining that they didn't already have is Traveling, which has more limitations for the Seanchan than the other groups.

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!

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The Seanchan attack and the upcoming round 2 ajfurst - 29/10/2009 11:39:16 PM 1088 Views

I don't see it happening that way Deadsy - 30/10/2009 12:00:09 AM 621 Views

Re: I don't see it happening that way ajfurst - 30/10/2009 02:52:23 AM 539 Views

Re: I don't see it happening that way Deadsy - 30/10/2009 03:48:42 AM 512 Views

Egwene toasted HoratioBoobles - 30/10/2009 01:32:28 AM 543 Views

A loss for the Seanchan.... The Wandering Gambler - 30/10/2009 03:48:37 AM 530 Views

IMO the Seanchan take over Randland, but Rand forces them to drop the damane practices. Lord Haart - 04/12/2009 05:58:56 PM 465 Views

I think they'll see it as a draw or minor victory darius_sedai - 04/12/2009 11:33:16 PM 438 Views

Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan Knightscape - 05/12/2009 06:15:37 AM 412 Views

Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan darius_sedai - 05/12/2009 07:19:31 AM 453 Views

Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan Knightscape - 05/12/2009 08:03:53 AM 501 Views

Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan darius_sedai - 05/12/2009 05:40:51 PM 436 Views

Re: Traveling can be a huge advantage for the Seanchan Knightscape - 05/12/2009 09:27:23 PM 416 Views

The raid could have been far more successful darius_sedai - 05/12/2009 10:13:07 PM 505 Views

Re: The raid was hugely successful Knightscape - 06/12/2009 01:08:44 AM 505 Views

nope darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 02:47:49 AM 420 Views

Re: Egwene's words Knightscape - 06/12/2009 07:12:59 AM 986 Views

The Seanchan are likely to feel the same way Egwene did darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:54:38 AM 392 Views

Re: The Seanchan would see this as a good first step Knightscape - 06/12/2009 10:32:55 AM 516 Views

Re: The Seanchan would see this as a good first step darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 05:30:48 PM 464 Views

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<quote id="58057">
<quote>Didn't you just claim that he could make a gate of 12 by 12?</quote>

Which isn't going to be big enough to fit a full Wagon.  Seriously there is no way a damane alone could manage it.

<quote>
Villages that appear and disappear, men who die with huge amounts of bugs crawling out of them, food going bad in a blink of an eye, huge explosions.  There has been a whole lot of weird things going on in Rand land.  With the Amyrlin of the white tower not knowing anything about a super weapon, or any other of their captives knowing anything about it, some suspicion about the root cause is going to occur.  There is no way possible that they don't start doubting the super weapon existence. 
</quote>

I disagree.  Not one of these things is connected to Channeling.  And the Seanchan have witnessed the use of this weapon, or at least they think they have!  There is no way that a few days of "I don't knows" from untrustworthy AS is going to convince them that they didn't actually lose a company of people to some secret weapon.

<quote>
Unconscious soldiers are not going to object to strenuously. Not to mention a good portion of the Seanchan army originates in the Westland.</quote>

If that was the case it would have already have begun.  It's not been happening, better weaves aren't going to change that.  And the common folk of Randland, especially in places like Amadicia, are uncomfortable with the thought of being touched by the OP too.

<quote>
Perhaps the average villager seeing the AS as vulnerable might lessen the awe the AS have gone out of their way to instill.  Why was the white tower trying to cover up all their blunders if there would be no ill effect?

As per Elaida, she will be spilling everything she knows withing days or hours of capture, not months. 
</quote>

Yes, every other AS in the series has held it together for weeks or more, but Elaida the megalomaniac who will believe for quiet a while that rescue will come will be broken in a few hours.  Her interrogation will be all about the weapon in any case... I'd be shocked if she 1.  Thought to mention it or 2. has spent enough time in her few months with access to know anything that could be useful to them.

<quote>
In Egwene's words;

"She'd fought. She'd been glorious and destructive, the Amyrlin of judgment and fury, Green Ajah to the core. And still, the Tower had burned. And still, more to'raken had escaped than had fallen. The count of wounded among those she'd gathered was somewhat encouraging. Only three novices and one Aes Sedai dead, while they'd gathered ten damane and killed dozens of soldiers. But what of the other floors?

<i>The White Tower would not come out ahead in this battle.</i></quote>

She captured or killed almost an equal number of channelers as the damane, she killed 30 raken and who knows how many soldiers.  ON the numbers they are close to even.

<quote><i>But this day would still mark one of the greatest
disasters in the history of the Aes Sedai."</i></quote>

Who is denying that?  I'm saying only that the Seanchan should not (and IMO will not) view this as a decisive victory.  It's a loss to the Tower from Tower POV, it's the first time the Tower itself has been breached, initiates carried off etc..., but it cost the Seanchan dearly to accomplish it and Tuon herself knows that she needed a crippling blow to the Tower since she is in her mind declaring war on Rand with this raid.

<quote>Gaining gateways is in no way a minor thing.
Knowing the procedures of various AS spy networks no minor thing.
Instilling fear that the White Tower is vulnerable no minor thing. </quote>

Now you believe the Seanchan have also gained full procedural knowledge from Elaida?  Give me a break, the woman herself had barely a clue on how things really worked around her!

As for fear, I'd say they just pulled a Pearl Harbor and have awoken the beast... the WT is now going to be quick to focus on stopping the Seanchan rather than looking at them as a far away and future problem.

I'd say the only thing they are gaining that they didn't already have is Traveling, which has more limitations for the Seanchan than the other groups.
</quote>

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