Is Demandred able to transpose his personality onto his servants, with a Compulsion type of weave? - Edit 1
Before modification by Shannow at 06/12/2009 07:28:40 AM
I've come across something strange while rereading Winter's Heart.
In the Forsaken scene, Demandred says and thinks the following:
""So it seems he must be killed after all". Hiding his satisfaction was not easy. Rand al'Thor or Lews Therin Telamon, he would rest easier when the fellow was dead."
We also know that Demandred wants to be the one who kills Lews Therin, wanting to prove himself the better man. There are countless quotes in this regard, including Lanfear's reference to Demandred's hatred for Lews Therin in FoH, and Demandred's own statement about his superior intellect at the Cleansing, and Demandred's threat in tGS that he would have exacted retribution from Semirhage if she killed Rand in his stead.
Now, I take you to Kisman's point of view in WH, when they are hunting Rand in Far Madding.
Kisman says the following, and these are RJ's exact words:
He had been a fool to let Rochaid talk him into this in the first place. They were supposed to wait until everyone had arrived, slipping into the city one by one to avoid notice. Rochaid had wanted the glory of being the one to kill al'Thor; THE MURANDIAN HAD BURNED WITH THE DESIRE TO PROVE HIMSELF A BETTER MAN THAN AL'THOR. Now he was dead of it, and very nearly Raefar Kisman with him, and that made Kisman furious. He wanted power more than glory, perhaps to rule Tear from the Stone. He wanted to live forever. Those things had been promised, they were his due. Part of his anger was because he was unsure they actually were supposed to kill al'Thor. The Great Lord knew he wanted to - HE WOULD NOT SLEEP SOUNDLY UNTIL THE MAN WAS DEAD AND BURIED..."
What struck me about this passage was the EXACT similarities between Kisman and Rochaid's feelings towards Rand, to those of Demandred.
Kisman says Rochaid burned with the desire prove himself a better man than al'Thor, wanting the glory of being the one that killed him.
EXACTLY like Demandred.
And Kisman's last sentence - "he would not sleep soundly until the man was dead and buried" almost exactly paraphrases Demandred's thoughts in the same book that he would "rest easier when the fellow (Rand) was dead."
It is almost as if these two henchman of Demandred have in some way been INFUSED with an aspect of his personality. Is this just an example of lazy writing on RJ's part, where he uses similar phrases and repetitions of personality types to save time and effort? Or are these "Mini-me" clones of Demandred a sign that Demandred knows some kind of weave (related to Compulsion probably) whereby his desires come to dominate the minds of his followers?
Not blind Compulsion, but rather a weave that resembles a form of super charisma, similar to the effect of a cult leader, where the servants are shaped to assume the characteristics of the leader.
I would carry this back to LoC, where Mazrim Taim portrays personality characteristics that are strikingly similar to that of Demandred. So much so that it formed a large part of the evidence in favor of the Taimandred theory.
Small examples are Taim's lack of humour, his facial expressions and off-hand arrogance. But the most striking example is his extremely negative reaction to Rand awarding him the Dragon badge in LoC. And the coincidence goes so far as for Rand to say:
"I was the first Ashaman, and Taim, you are the second." Taim has a violent shaking fit at this point, and his expression is so cold and grim that Rand actually thinks the man is going to be sick. Dashiva wouldn't have reacted in this way, neither would Rahvin, or Asmodean or Balthamel.
But we KNOW that the central aspect of Demandred's existence is his hatred of being number two to Lews Therin Telamon. So again in this scene, we see a henchman of Demandred - Mazrim Taim - exhibit behavior and thought patterns that seem to have been transposed directly out of Demandred's worldview.
RJ said that Demandred had never POSED as Taim. And then he made the comment in true Aes Sedai fashion the truth could be more confusing than a lie. What if Demandred had never POSED as Taim, but he had somehow infused him with part of his personality? Just like Rochaid and Kisman.
Are these mere coincidences, or is this a unique ability of Demandred to spread his influence, achieve his goals, and probably most of all, satisfy his ego? By creating lesser clones of himself among his servants?
Comments?
In the Forsaken scene, Demandred says and thinks the following:
""So it seems he must be killed after all". Hiding his satisfaction was not easy. Rand al'Thor or Lews Therin Telamon, he would rest easier when the fellow was dead."
We also know that Demandred wants to be the one who kills Lews Therin, wanting to prove himself the better man. There are countless quotes in this regard, including Lanfear's reference to Demandred's hatred for Lews Therin in FoH, and Demandred's own statement about his superior intellect at the Cleansing, and Demandred's threat in tGS that he would have exacted retribution from Semirhage if she killed Rand in his stead.
Now, I take you to Kisman's point of view in WH, when they are hunting Rand in Far Madding.
Kisman says the following, and these are RJ's exact words:
He had been a fool to let Rochaid talk him into this in the first place. They were supposed to wait until everyone had arrived, slipping into the city one by one to avoid notice. Rochaid had wanted the glory of being the one to kill al'Thor; THE MURANDIAN HAD BURNED WITH THE DESIRE TO PROVE HIMSELF A BETTER MAN THAN AL'THOR. Now he was dead of it, and very nearly Raefar Kisman with him, and that made Kisman furious. He wanted power more than glory, perhaps to rule Tear from the Stone. He wanted to live forever. Those things had been promised, they were his due. Part of his anger was because he was unsure they actually were supposed to kill al'Thor. The Great Lord knew he wanted to - HE WOULD NOT SLEEP SOUNDLY UNTIL THE MAN WAS DEAD AND BURIED..."
What struck me about this passage was the EXACT similarities between Kisman and Rochaid's feelings towards Rand, to those of Demandred.
Kisman says Rochaid burned with the desire prove himself a better man than al'Thor, wanting the glory of being the one that killed him.
EXACTLY like Demandred.
And Kisman's last sentence - "he would not sleep soundly until the man was dead and buried" almost exactly paraphrases Demandred's thoughts in the same book that he would "rest easier when the fellow (Rand) was dead."
It is almost as if these two henchman of Demandred have in some way been INFUSED with an aspect of his personality. Is this just an example of lazy writing on RJ's part, where he uses similar phrases and repetitions of personality types to save time and effort? Or are these "Mini-me" clones of Demandred a sign that Demandred knows some kind of weave (related to Compulsion probably) whereby his desires come to dominate the minds of his followers?
Not blind Compulsion, but rather a weave that resembles a form of super charisma, similar to the effect of a cult leader, where the servants are shaped to assume the characteristics of the leader.
I would carry this back to LoC, where Mazrim Taim portrays personality characteristics that are strikingly similar to that of Demandred. So much so that it formed a large part of the evidence in favor of the Taimandred theory.
Small examples are Taim's lack of humour, his facial expressions and off-hand arrogance. But the most striking example is his extremely negative reaction to Rand awarding him the Dragon badge in LoC. And the coincidence goes so far as for Rand to say:
"I was the first Ashaman, and Taim, you are the second." Taim has a violent shaking fit at this point, and his expression is so cold and grim that Rand actually thinks the man is going to be sick. Dashiva wouldn't have reacted in this way, neither would Rahvin, or Asmodean or Balthamel.
But we KNOW that the central aspect of Demandred's existence is his hatred of being number two to Lews Therin Telamon. So again in this scene, we see a henchman of Demandred - Mazrim Taim - exhibit behavior and thought patterns that seem to have been transposed directly out of Demandred's worldview.
RJ said that Demandred had never POSED as Taim. And then he made the comment in true Aes Sedai fashion the truth could be more confusing than a lie. What if Demandred had never POSED as Taim, but he had somehow infused him with part of his personality? Just like Rochaid and Kisman.
Are these mere coincidences, or is this a unique ability of Demandred to spread his influence, achieve his goals, and probably most of all, satisfy his ego? By creating lesser clones of himself among his servants?
Comments?