Possible way in which Graendal could have survived...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 06/12/2009 06:11:11 AM
Rereading the section with Ramshalan, am still a little unsatisfied with Graendal's demise.
A man appears from the Dragon Reborn, alone, at _her_ palace door. After Compulsion, the interrogation inevitably would have to lead to what the Dragon had said to him, and the very strange riddle the Dragon had queried: "How do I outthink an enemy I know is smarter than I am." That by itself and given that the Dragon had woven a hole in the air directly to her palace, AND the fact that Rand outrightly identifies her: "My current foe understands the others in a way that I cannot hope to match. So how do I defeat her?" (567) would she not be in the least bit suspicious immediately?
Yes the chess game of wills is one thing, but effective the moment she compelled him and discovered the dialogue that the Dragon had said, she's knows he knows where she is.... Why stay at all? Especially when she's got to think to herself how is he getting back to Rand (with no horse, or entourage....)? The thought that the Dragon has got to be somewhere in the vicinity has to have crossed her mind, right? Her hiding place has been compromised, that is an immediate fact.
Add to that, that if Aran'gar were there, wouldn't Aran'gar have felt the buildup of saidin for the balefire; it was a lot of balefire after all.... (the passage reads that it was a moment to be sure, but a long one)...?
I know Sanderson kind of dumbed her down and forgot some of the details of her scenes, but given just how smart she is, I'd think she'd not be so foolish as to just Compel him and send him on his way and then resume her idle fancies....
A man appears from the Dragon Reborn, alone, at _her_ palace door. After Compulsion, the interrogation inevitably would have to lead to what the Dragon had said to him, and the very strange riddle the Dragon had queried: "How do I outthink an enemy I know is smarter than I am." That by itself and given that the Dragon had woven a hole in the air directly to her palace, AND the fact that Rand outrightly identifies her: "My current foe understands the others in a way that I cannot hope to match. So how do I defeat her?" (567) would she not be in the least bit suspicious immediately?
Yes the chess game of wills is one thing, but effective the moment she compelled him and discovered the dialogue that the Dragon had said, she's knows he knows where she is.... Why stay at all? Especially when she's got to think to herself how is he getting back to Rand (with no horse, or entourage....)? The thought that the Dragon has got to be somewhere in the vicinity has to have crossed her mind, right? Her hiding place has been compromised, that is an immediate fact.
Add to that, that if Aran'gar were there, wouldn't Aran'gar have felt the buildup of saidin for the balefire; it was a lot of balefire after all.... (the passage reads that it was a moment to be sure, but a long one)...?
I know Sanderson kind of dumbed her down and forgot some of the details of her scenes, but given just how smart she is, I'd think she'd not be so foolish as to just Compel him and send him on his way and then resume her idle fancies....
Here's a way in which Graendal could have survived.
She puts Ramshalan in a locked room before she Compels him. In order to Compel him, she goes to the room and orders the jailer to unlock the room for her. She then enters the room and Compels Ramshalan. She immediately flees the palace.
Then, when Rand balefires the palace, the jailer dies. His actions are erased and therefore he was never able to open the door for Graendal, and thus she was never able to Compel Ramshalan. The Compulsion therefore vanishes, making Rand think she's dead.
Alternatively, Graendal died in the same anti climatic way that Balthamel, Be'lal, Sammael and Semirhage died or were captured.
Rather stupidly.
Personally, I think the biggest giveaway of her death is Sanderson's own comments. He was far too quick to say that Graendal will be mentioned in ToM. To me that is indicative of his habit of trying to give clever or "Aes Sedai" like answers, where he thinks he's saying one thing but actually meaning something else.
In other words, by openly admitting that Graendal will appear in the next book, he is in fact creating uncertaintly regarding her survival, while knowing that she has actually died.
If she was really alive, he would under no circumstances have given that hint, as Graendal's survival should have been a total surprise to astound us when we read about it.
This message last edited by Shannow on 06/12/2009 at 06:12:18 AM
Graendal: What would you do when a man appears at your door?
- 06/12/2009 03:37:39 AM
1144 Views
I tend to agree
- 06/12/2009 03:46:37 AM
619 Views
Re: I tend to agree
- 06/12/2009 04:01:22 AM
715 Views
Delana!!! 
- 09/12/2009 08:35:40 PM
550 Views
- 09/12/2009 08:35:40 PM
550 Views
I think the weaving was too complex for a n00b like Delana. Nynaeve's comments point to Graendal.
- 09/12/2009 10:52:55 PM
485 Views
I was assuming Delana was mind-dead compulsed to weave the complex weaves by 
- 10/12/2009 06:34:09 AM
565 Views
- 10/12/2009 06:34:09 AM
565 Views
Ah, so you're proposing that
- 06/12/2009 04:29:34 AM
687 Views
Possible way in which Graendal could have survived...
- 06/12/2009 06:11:11 AM
714 Views
Re: Graendal: What would you do when a man appears at your door?
- 06/12/2009 06:33:58 AM
689 Views
We're going to see Graendal's plan in ToM, including her interaction with Ramshalan.
- 06/12/2009 08:03:33 AM
551 Views
She'd have had to ask the right questions to get the right answers.
- 07/12/2009 12:44:29 AM
593 Views
Re: She'd have had to ask the right questions to get the right answers.
- 07/12/2009 02:18:07 AM
492 Views