This is our never ending debate ... at least it's a good one 
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- Edit 1Before modification by darius_sedai at 01/12/2009 07:28:12 PM
Liandrin says that if she linked with two of her black ajah associates, they could overwhelm Moghedien. This suggests that Moghedien is about that strong, and Cadsuane is not.
So either Liandrin is wrong, or the Forsaken were holding back when they were sending attacks on Cadsuane's shield. IMO Liandrin was, as usual overestimating herself. However, it should be mentioned that the Sisters with Liandrin are pretty weak so it's possible that 2 Temaile types may only equal 1 Merise!
And how strong are Elle and Jancy?.
Only that they will be exceptional by Tower standards, I don't recall if their is a quote that says anything to figure out if they are above Moiraine, but they are the only other Novices who's strength is brought up.
I don't recall ever doubting that Elayne was much stronger than any Aes Sedai. I do recall Egwene stating that only Nynaeve had the power to match the Forsaken. I also recall Egwene saying that Rand was so strong he could have killed her and Elayne without any effort, but that Nynaeve might have a chance against him - which is one again a comparison of her relative strength compared to them.
Egwene actually thinks that Nynaeve could possibly split her flows a dozen ways, not that she thinks Nynaeve could match Rand.
Vague only because they contest your opinion. In fact, the lecture comes from Loial who is notoriously knowledgable about ancient information. In it he lists the famous False Dragons and evidence to show that six Sisters could not overwhelm any of them.
Rand has also never been overwhelmed by six women - they usually have thirteen go after him. Siuan also said that Logain nearly escaped a shield held by six women and had there been less, he probably would have escaped. If Logain can break nearly break a shield held by six women and he's weaker than Rand, I don't see how six could actually match his direct strength.
Rand has also never been overwhelmed by six women - they usually have thirteen go after him. Siuan also said that Logain nearly escaped a shield held by six women and had there been less, he probably would have escaped. If Logain can break nearly break a shield held by six women and he's weaker than Rand, I don't see how six could actually match his direct strength.
All we have to go on is a snippet of a text saying FD X took out 6 AS. I'm not disputing that it happened, I'm saying it's not "Often" as you put it (it's only happened a handful of times, or no Red Sister would be out of the Tower on her own). I'm also saying that we have no idea what the circumstances of these battles looked like!
Again, Siuan makes a claim that seems highly suspect, Rand had no chance of breaking the shield held against him when he was in captured... an all he did was obsessively try with LTT in his head giving him pointers! Either Logain was held by 6 women like Daigian, or Siuan left out some details there.
So in other words you merely explain away a battle that doesn't suit your arguments. If the series its self cannot be used as evidence, I would like to know what can be.
Sigh ... I'm saying you're not looking at the context of the battle in question. Merean wasn't only fighting a battle with the OP, she had set up a classic bad guy situation where the protagonist had to make impossible choices to distract her from the fight! It's not like Merean and Moiraine wandered into each other in the middle of nowhere and had a free for all battle, Merean had hostages!
But you don't know that. Semirhage and Graendal were among the most skilled women in their own Age when there were literally millions of channelers around. Just because Egwene has one eye in the land of the blind doesn't put her on a par with the Forsaken.
I've admitted this is my opinion, just as the above is yours! Since we've never seen it we don't know. My interpretation of the text leads me to believe that Egwene would be more than solid in a duel against any woman in the series. Not to say she could over come one of the Forsaken, I'm not deluded
Egwene herself acknowledges that only Nynaeve could face the Forsaken.
No Egwene acknowledges that only Nynaeve is as strong as the Forsaken. There is a difference.
Her strength is far above average, but why would the Forsaken care if she was weaker and less skilled than they? They've often said that even if Rand is as powerful as Lews Therin, he knows a tenth of what they do and is not a threat. It's unlikely Semirhage is wiser than this. It was her own arrogance that got her caught in the first place.
Agreed, but Graendal tells us that she will not have skill and strength in the same place. Semirhage wouldn't have blinked at Cadsuane if she was on the same level as Merise, no matter how skilled or old or in charge. It's the combination of her strength along with the other.
Well you asked for a quote regarding that topic and I gave it. Amys shielded Egwene while she was sleeping and tired too. One could make excuses for any number of situations in this series.
Huh? Amys flat out tells Egwene that she couldn't hold her shield any longer. Silviana is not as strong as Amys. Egwene in that moment was exhausted. This does not equate to one woman being able to hold her shield.
Which makes her at least equal to Silviana! No way Silviana could hold Egwene alone.
Two Black Sisters could hold Nynaeve. It's unlikely that two would be needed for Egwene.
Two BA put a shield on Nynaeve and held if for a few heartbeats. The got distracted and either dropped the shield or she broke through. There is nothing to say that Ispan and Falion could have held the shield for long other than Nynaeve's constantly fatalistic outlook
Well apart from the evidence I gave you, it has one demonstrable fact. You think that Elayne is strong enough in the Power that Nynaeve cannot shield her, but I've shown you that Nynaeve can shield both Moghedien and Talaan. Either you must claim that Elayne is stronger or equal to Moghedien/Talaan, or you must concede that shielding is poor evidence for strength when it is so easily disproven in other circumstances.
I know the following:
Nynaeve attempted to shield Elayne and failed. Who knows why, but, if she was that much stronger than Elayne no amount of poor weaving should have been able to stop her from shielding her. Obviously if Nynaeve concentrated harder in that moment she would have been able to do it. My point is that Elayne is close enough to her that she has to make an effort to shield her, something I don't think she would have to do for Moiraine etc...