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Re: Hmmm... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 30/11/2009 08:57:50 PM


Cadsuane = 1.5 Aes Sedai
Egwene = 2 Aes Sedai
Nynaeve = 3 Aes Sedai... IMHO

What does Aes Sedai mean here, though? They are not of the same strength at all. If you're saying Cadsuane=1.5 Moiraine, and so on, I disagree.

So?

When women of such strength are in the vicinity of PoV characters, they get mentioned.

Bode? Since when?

First, there's Egwene's quote, then there's Romanda's wondering where Bode will end up. Not something AS do often.
And the Two Rivers hoard of pure gold has been mentioned several times.

But not all together! It's the truth that Aviendha is probably one of the strongest Wise Ones. But saying that we know for certain of all the Wise Ones of great strength is mad. If not for the weaving ceremony with Tamela and Viendre, we'd never have heard of them.

You're ignoring the fact that the Wise Ones around Aviendha have probably come across most of the other WO, and therefore, when they comment on Avi, they're commenting on the Aiel as a whole. It doesn't matter that we don't know the names of each and everyone. Avi's strength is so rare that the WO comment on it.

Be'lal says the girls are less than nothing, and maybe one day they'll be something.

So? He says Moiraine at her current full power and skill level is puny.
He dismisses the current abilities of the three, and rightly. But we're arguing about their potentials, no?
Not only that, but in both Be'lal and Moghedien's case, you're taking statements that are clearly focussed on Nynaeve's incredible strength and passing them on to Elayne or Egwene.

Be'lal says "they". Not one of them, they!
Moggy too makes a clear distinction between Elayne and Nynaeve, and makes it clear Elayne herself, even in her current level, is strong enough to be trouble.

True, but what's your point?

That when we compare women with "Aes Sedai" we cannot use Aes Sedai to mean a woman of Merise or Moiraine strength women.

And yet six linked women are often overcome by males of great strength and killed or stilled. It's likely that Lanfear can match the strength of a powerful False Dragon and cannot be overwhelmed by six.

And all these six women were of Moiraine strength? I think not.
Look at the circle holding Logain. None were at this level, and its highly unlikely that women of Sheriam's strength were holding it either.
From what Cadsuane says in tGS, usually the weakest women are given the job of holding shields.
Here's the quote:
There were several others in the hallway with her—Daigian, Erian, Elza—whose turn it was to maintain Semirhage's shield. Aside from Cadsuane, each Aes Sedai in the camp took turns. It was too dangerous to risk forcing the duty only on the Aes Sedai of lesser stature, lest they grow weary. The shield had to remain strong. Light only knew what would happen if Semirhage got free.

Assuming that six women of Moiraine's strength cannot tackle Rand is insane.

I've mentioned by hesitance with that example. A mixed link is much stronger than a single-sex one and people died when they tried to kill Aran'gar. Lews Therin said that no three women could take him unless one was Semirhage. This clearly implies that Egwene and co would have an unfortunate ending with some of the more powerful Forsaken.

I think you're mixing up shielding with battling. I doubt LTT would say no three women could defeat him in battle unless one was Semirhage, simply because Sermirhage herself is quite capable of taking him.

As I said to Darius, Elayne did not have much respect for the turtle angreal despite the fact that it made her twice as strong as Nynaeve.

That was Elayne, who has no great experience with angreal. Verin and Graendal are a whole other thing.

Angreals make these debates moot. It's not even that alone. Alivia had a strong angreal and was still handed her ass by Cyndane. There are many factors like skill, and the Forsaken tend to have the highest of strength and skill.

But Alivia is not skilled at all compared to women like Cadsuane and Egwene. This is proved by Alivia's continuous attempts to make Cadsuane teach her.

Yes, but I don't know how she'd react to a duel with say, Moghedien. She's never fought another powerful channeler before.

Which is why I dismiss her statement that she cannot tackle one of the Forsaken linked with Lelaine and Romanda.

I think Semirhage took more notice of Cadsuane because of her status, age and strength. Cadsuane was the one who defeated Semirhage, along with Nynaeve. She also has an angreal and dangerous ter'angreal. That makes her a threat to Semirhage on many levels.

Yes, exactly!

Like? Moghedien?

Yup. Maybe Asmodean as well.

Well even in TGS, Egwene says that one Sister can hold her. It's not the same with Nynaeve. I think these are all clues to the gap between them.

One sister of Katerine or Silviana's strength. Two such might well be able to hold Nynaeve. This says nothing of their relative strengths.
There's also the issue that Amys is unable to shield Egwene when Egwene wasn't even at full potential.

I addressed this with darius. Nynaeve lashed out in anger, and she's a ridiculously emotional channeler. With concentration she's been shown to shield both Moghedien and Talaan.

No, she is shown to shield them when they lose concentration. The same was not the case with Elayne, and hence her shield failed.
Same with Verin and co. against Graendal. They were not overwhelmingly stronger than her. Thus they couldn't shield her because she wasn't distracted.
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Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? - 21/11/2009 02:53:22 PM 1424 Views
BS said... - 21/11/2009 02:57:58 PM 770 Views
Actually, you are adding a word that isn't there. - 21/11/2009 03:47:48 PM 979 Views
IMO, it's self evident that the female list only contains named characters - 21/11/2009 03:58:33 PM 646 Views
IMO, the above post by "Logain" is trolling and not worth the debating!! *NM* - 21/11/2009 04:01:08 PM 231 Views
I have a valid reason for asking. - 21/11/2009 04:05:52 PM 738 Views
I can assure you... - 21/11/2009 04:47:18 PM 569 Views
Re: IMO, it's self evident that the female list only contains named characters - 21/11/2009 04:09:58 PM 496 Views
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I find it unlikely that a super strong channeler would end up being unimportant to the plot *NM* - 21/11/2009 11:54:43 PM 227 Views
This sounds semi-mystical... - 24/11/2009 04:45:52 PM 438 Views
Also, if they were that strong, they would then be important. - 29/11/2009 05:24:35 PM 408 Views
she's in the top 0.1% of channelers we know of - 21/11/2009 03:01:02 PM 533 Views
She's in the top 0.05% *NM* - 21/11/2009 11:41:42 PM 221 Views
so shes also in the top 0.1%? *NM* - 22/11/2009 12:04:00 AM 223 Views
Of course. My figure is more exclusive. *NM* - 22/11/2009 12:23:23 AM 200 Views
Yes *NM* - 21/11/2009 03:56:12 PM 218 Views
Yes, though obviously Etzel is right. - 21/11/2009 04:08:41 PM 605 Views
Re: Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? - 21/11/2009 06:00:29 PM 487 Views
So what's the point? Why the quotes? *NM* - 21/11/2009 10:24:37 PM 210 Views
Re: So what's the point? Why the quotes? - 24/11/2009 07:31:37 PM 432 Views
Actually... what Graenal says - 25/11/2009 09:39:05 PM 488 Views
Well... - 21/11/2009 11:44:40 PM 529 Views
I really doubt Nynaeve strength channelers are one in thousand... - 22/11/2009 12:09:15 AM 521 Views
I agree with you! - 23/11/2009 12:48:35 AM 452 Views
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Hmmm... - 26/11/2009 10:38:44 PM 479 Views
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Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 06:13:26 PM 556 Views
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Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 04:42:36 PM 533 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 05:53:11 PM 481 Views
Re: not being able to shield Elayne - 28/11/2009 09:46:24 PM 444 Views
Yes, the incidents rather cancel each other out IMO - 29/11/2009 12:55:04 AM 454 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 04:44:41 AM 524 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 05:50:37 AM 540 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 08:09:24 PM 512 Views
This is our never ending debate ... at least it's a good one - 01/12/2009 03:31:40 PM 733 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 08:57:50 PM 665 Views
Re: Well... - 24/11/2009 07:41:57 PM 416 Views
Re: Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? Yes *NM* - 22/11/2009 05:29:17 AM 216 Views
Yes. *NM* - 24/11/2009 05:56:17 PM 243 Views
Yes. *NM* - 25/11/2009 06:22:09 PM 200 Views

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