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Re: Hmmm... Sidious Send a noteboard - 30/11/2009 08:09:24 PM
Yet we have no context on how much more than the two of them combined she is channeling.... we also know she spends the whole day repelling FS attacks, via her shield, so in theory she's much stronger than simply Elza and Merise combined!


Liandrin says that if she linked with two of her black ajah associates, they could overwhelm Moghedien. This suggests that Moghedien is about that strong, and Cadsuane is not.

Yet she is the only Novice mentioned aside from Sharina, Elle, Jancy and Nicola... she's clearly being made much over.


And how strong are Elle and Jancy?

I think you are stretching the text here. Much more likely is that one of the women told Be'lal how strong the three were. As for Rhavin, he could have also heard via BA sources, thus far in the series there is nothing discovered that allows men and women to know the relative strength of the opposite sex.


But I'm not an advocate of Be'lal's statements. Fionwe said that he had respect for their strength, and I said he also mocked their strength. So both are opposing statements, from whatever sources he had.

Again, you're speculating to make the text say something that simply isn't there. Moghedien laughs off the BA around her, yet makes note of Elaynes strength. While it's obvious that Nynaeve is the strongest, Elayne's strength is so far above the standard AS as to be noticeable.


I don't recall ever doubting that Elayne was much stronger than any Aes Sedai. I do recall Egwene stating that only Nynaeve had the power to match the Forsaken. I also recall Egwene saying that Rand was so strong he could have killed her and Elayne without any effort, but that Nynaeve might have a chance against him - which is one again a comparison of her relative strength compared to them.

Vague and often inaccurate histories! Kiruna's about as credible as Moiraine, and for the record she's wrong, 6 AS hold Rand's shield without problem.


Vague only because they contest your opinion. In fact, the lecture comes from Loial who is notoriously knowledgable about ancient information. In it he lists the famous False Dragons and evidence to show that six Sisters could not overwhelm any of them.

Rand has also never been overwhelmed by six women - they usually have thirteen go after him. Siuan also said that Logain nearly escaped a shield held by six women and had there been less, he probably would have escaped. If Logain can break nearly break a shield held by six women and he's weaker than Rand, I don't see how six could actually match his direct strength.

Yet 100% of Alivia's skill is in combat, not to mention the ter'angreal in her possession made the situation even more lopsided! Moiraine v. Merean is a bad example for several reasons... 1. Merean is much older (probably above 200) and vastly more skilled. 2. Merean is not restricted by the Oaths and is thus able to kill people Moiraine is trying to protect! 3. The battle is in no way a straight up duel since Merean is busy killing innocent by-standers!


So in other words you merely explain away a battle that doesn't suit your arguments. If the series its self cannot be used as evidence, I would like to know what can be.

Fair enough, I am speculating. But you misunderstand my 6 AS point ... I don't think Egwene can come close to the raw power of 6 linked women. I think she would be more effective in single combat than 6 AS. Her skill alone would keep her in the game against the likes of Semirhage for a while.


But you don't know that. Semirhage and Graendal were among the most skilled women in their own Age when there were literally millions of channelers around. Just because Egwene has one eye in the land of the blind doesn't put her on a par with the Forsaken.

I think Egwene could hold her own against Moghedien and possibly Mesaana (assuming she is only one level about Mogs). She could probably hold out for a while against Nynaeve based on the skill levels, but wouldn't be able to deal with Semirhage or above (3+ levels). On the flip side 6 linked AS wouldn't be much more powerful than Alivia was when facing Cyndane, and they would have none of the ter'angreal to help and very little in combat skill.


Egwene herself acknowledges that only Nynaeve could face the Forsaken.

We know she took note of the *angreal net she wears. But my point is that Semirhage would have been been less impressed by Cadsuane if she had Moiraine level strength. Cadsuane is impressive for many reasons, one of them is her strength.


Her strength is far above average, but why would the Forsaken care if she was weaker and less skilled than they? They've often said that even if Rand is as powerful as Lews Therin, he knows a tenth of what they do and is not a threat. It's unlikely Semirhage is wiser than this. It was her own arrogance that got her caught in the first place.

Egwene is exhausted in this scene! She could barely Channel at all... hardly a credible situation.


Well you asked for a quote regarding that topic and I gave it. Amys shielded Egwene while she was sleeping and tired too. One could make excuses for any number of situations in this series.

Which makes her at least equal to Silviana! No way Silviana could hold Egwene alone.


Two Black Sisters could hold Nynaeve. It's unlikely that two would be needed for Egwene.

I don't see how these situations equate... IMO there are too many conflicting quotes around this topic to make for anything approaching conclusiveness.


Well apart from the evidence I gave you, it has one demonstrable fact. You think that Elayne is strong enough in the Power that Nynaeve cannot shield her, but I've shown you that Nynaeve can shield both Moghedien and Talaan. Either you must claim that Elayne is stronger or equal to Moghedien/Talaan, or you must concede that shielding is poor evidence for strength when it is so easily disproven in other circumstances.
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