Active Users:347 Time:16/11/2024 01:13:40 PM
Re: You made the assertion, it's not my responsibility to disprove you, Cannoli Send a noteboard - 23/11/2009 11:37:03 AM
And the number of quotes would be ridiculous anyway.

In short, the result of the rebellion and Egwene's actions was that:

- BA was destroyed (better to fight 70 of them then be infested with 200 who will backstab the Tower at TG). Verin had noone else to trust with this information (Moiraine was "dead" and Siuan was demoted).
The rebellion was not necessarily required for this.

- Egwene - one of the few people that can understand Rand - is now in charge of the AS. Elaida would have botched it unless the rebellion happened, and if not for Egwene, someone like Lelaine would take power. Or Romanda (imagine if the hundreds of overage novices were turned away? A terrible loss for the light).
You have it backwards. The only hope for the Tower was a pro-Rand Amyrlin. Lelaine or her ilk could not have fixed things without going over to the pro-Rand side. The Tower broke because it was too dominant and obstructive to Rand. Rand has plenty of Aes Sedai, most of whom were loyal to the unbroken Tower, to do whatever he needs Aes Sedai for.

And given that Egwene plans to punish Rand for the bonding of Elaida's expedition to the Black Tower, despite knowing the circumstances and the facts, how can you assert that her reign is good for Rand?

- It was mainly due to Egwene that there WAS a tower after the Seanchan attack.
Prove this absurd statement. The Seanchan launched a relatively small raid. Without the rebellion, perhaps the Tower would have been better situated to fight off the raid, and in any case, the Ajah heads and most of the Hall survived, only one through Egwene's intervention. They were functioning just fine and would have got over their weepy-time afterwards, Egwene or no.

So yes, without Egwene and the rebels:
1 - Seanchan destroy the Tower AS.
Absurd exaggeration. They were only trying to hurt the Tower. Destroying it was neither their expectation or aim. If they thought their raid was going to destroy the White Tower, why send the Bloodknives? Plainly they expected the Tower to survive their attack, otherwise the Bloodknives would have no one to attack.

2 - Black Ajah destroys the rest of the AS, turning on them during the last battle.
....and? This might suck for the Aes Sedai, but since their function has mainly been to obstruct the development of the world, no big loss in the grand scheme of things.

3 - Any other Amyrlin will antagonise Rand. Egwene is the ONLY person who has gone through the "box" experience, so with some advice from Nynaeve she will know how to approach him.
Assuming she would be inclined to either take Nynaeve's advice or approach Rand sympathetically instead of punishing him to uphold the exalted status of her followers. Why don't you show where she has EVER taken Rand's advice? And how is her being in a cell where she did have some room to move a superior empathetic experience to Elayne's having been in an ACTUAL box, like Rand?

4 - Without the Tower, the Kin and Elayne crumble.
Bull on both counts. Elayne's biggest remaining threat comes from an Aes Sedai. Without the Tower, Duhara's interference is nil. Elayne's claim to power is due to her ancestry. Since people have been talking about her being the first queen who can admit she is an Aes Sedai, the Tower is more of a liability to her than the reverse. That is why the Tower is so interested in seeing her on the throne - they want the prestige of an Aes Sedai queen. That would not mean anything to them if her rule and power came entirely through them. And let us not forget that it was the machinations of the Tower that incited the other claimants to try setting themselves up when Rand disappeared.

5 - Not only that, but the BA will be in a position to directly manipulate leaders unchecked and cause immeasurable damage. Even if Rand wins then, the world he saves will be a dead world.
Which has nothing to do with Egwene or the rebellion. ANYONE could have done what she did with the information Verin gave.

Have you even read the books? I can't fathom how you can fail to see the importance of Egwene and the Rebels.

If you can't see the point of that subplot, I doubt this is the right series for you. :S
Why don't YOU go to a site where that smiley works? Whether or not the rebels are important might be an issue, but your assertions largely fail to prove their case.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
The more I think about it (Egwene and the Rebels) - 19/11/2009 08:07:50 PM 1192 Views
The Pattern "willed" it. - 19/11/2009 08:18:56 PM 530 Views
Well, yeah. I agree with that. *NM* - 19/11/2009 08:22:34 PM 379 Views
I don't really agree. - 19/11/2009 08:22:20 PM 1267 Views
What I'm saying is - 19/11/2009 08:31:11 PM 489 Views
Not really, no. - 19/11/2009 09:02:29 PM 508 Views
Yet - 19/11/2009 08:33:23 PM 454 Views
Re: Yet - 19/11/2009 08:35:37 PM 447 Views
Re: Yet - 29/11/2009 06:56:40 AM 401 Views
I take it that was a reply to BlackAdder... *NM* - 19/11/2009 09:04:32 PM 199 Views
Assume there was no Rebellion - 19/11/2009 10:06:28 PM 515 Views
Right. Even if that does not answer his question. *NM* - 19/11/2009 10:11:21 PM 172 Views
Sorry, I forgot to address that... - 19/11/2009 10:20:57 PM 488 Views
Re: Assume there was no Rebellion - 29/11/2009 06:12:00 AM 402 Views
Couldn't be more wrong - delete this evidence-less thread - 21/11/2009 06:36:35 PM 443 Views
OK...? - 21/11/2009 10:16:43 PM 405 Views
You made the assertion, it's not my responsibility to disprove you, - 22/11/2009 04:35:14 PM 411 Views
Re: You made the assertion, it's not my responsibility to disprove you, - 23/11/2009 11:37:03 AM 440 Views
Re: The more I think about it (Egwene and the Rebels) - 01/12/2009 01:42:13 AM 561 Views
Re: The more I think about it (Egwene and the Rebels) - 01/12/2009 01:43:19 AM 448 Views
Wow... - 01/12/2009 11:37:27 PM 436 Views
Egwene could've done most of what she did without screentime. *NM* - 19/12/2009 07:30:14 PM 171 Views

Reply to Message