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Actually, I just reread that passage, and now I'm confused again... Shannow Send a noteboard - 21/11/2009 08:30:17 AM
At the Cleansing it was revealed that the likes of Demandred and Cyndane could make new gateways immediately after arriving at the Battle Zone. This defied the existing explanation that you had to spend time getting to know a place before you could make gateways from it.

Personally, I think RJ saw the tactical need to be able to make a lot of gateways quickly in the heat of battle, so he had to change the rule somewhat to explain how this is possible.

Pretty soon after Winter's Heart, if I recall correctly, Rand suddenly mentions that you don't have to know a place to make gateways for short distances (i.e. to destinations in close proximity to the first gateway.) Now this goes against the explanation we had before, as making a gateway does not mean you have to know your destination, but that you have to know where you're Travelling from.

In any case, Rand now makes gateways to places within the same city with no problem. This despite the fact that Skimming was used for such short distance Travelling in the past.

But now, RJ had another problem. The implication of making a gateway FROM somewhere, however short it might be, is that you now KNOW that place. Certainly, when using saidar you make your destination similar to your departure point.

So the net result is that once you've made a gateway from a place, even if it is for a short distance, then you KNOW that part of the Pattern.

In tGS, Nynaeve observes Rand making use of this principle. When he doesn't know a place well enough to Travel from it, he simply makes a "short" gateway to somewhere close by - which now is possible as per Demandred and Cyndane at the Cleansing.

Then he immediately closes this "short" gateway, without actually using it. The purpose of this exercise was to familiarize himself with the area. So now he is able to make a "long" gateway, to anywhere he chooses to go.

The net effect is that he no longer has to wait and familiarize himself with an area. Instead, by using this trick he can Travel anywhere at any time.

The whole of the above obviously begs the question: "Why didn't Asmodean just teach him this trick instead of going into the long explanation of why Skimming is necessary if you know your destination but not your departure point.

And why did Asmodean use Skimming to get to Rhuidean, and not just this much quicker trick, which would have handed him the Choedan Kal without any interference from Rand. In hindsight of course.


I wasn't aware of all of this. So it's not just the Ways (of the Ogier) and the Travelling stones (to other worlds) but also those travelling gateways into empty darkness which are cast aside in the series.


When I first read it, I was skimming through the book, and kind of took Nynaeve's comments to mean the only logical thing it could mean.

But after your question, I've now gone and reread it, and it doesn't make any sense anymore.

It seems Rand actually made a gateway to somewhere close by, and rode through that gateway. And according to Nynaeve in that passage, "Making a gateway TO somewhere made you know the place well enough to Travel FROM it."

To me, that makes no sense whatsoever. Up to now, if you made a gateway TO a place, and let it close, you had to wait until you familiarized yourself with the place before you could Travel from it again.

In fact, if Travelling TO a place made you know it well enough to make gateways FROM it, there would never be any issue in the first place. Wherever you Travel to, you could immediately Travel back from it again. Why go through the process of making the short hop gateway first?

I think Sanderson got that slightly wrong.

I think what that was meant to portray, is that if you make a short gateway FROM a place, that by default means you then KNOW the place well enough to make a gateway FROM it to ANYWHERE.

This might require a question to BS. But please, not before he gets asked the much more important question of how Graendal's strength compares to Nynaeve's!
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If the Forsaken really wanted to defeat the Light - gateways at the bottom of the ocean... - 20/11/2009 02:02:59 PM 1860 Views
I've actually thought that would be a great way to make a power plant. - 20/11/2009 02:48:21 PM 875 Views
I t doesn't defy EXACTLY the laws of conservation - 20/11/2009 03:02:16 PM 1172 Views
The Forsaken don't think like that - 20/11/2009 02:57:27 PM 890 Views
What in the world... outer space?? This is fantasy, not sci-fi *NM* - 20/11/2009 03:08:26 PM 442 Views
RJ has stated that channelers can Travel to other planets, even other solar systems... - 20/11/2009 03:12:37 PM 776 Views
OK... - 20/11/2009 05:15:32 PM 733 Views
Tied off gateways dissappear after a while *NM* - 20/11/2009 03:15:56 PM 393 Views
No. Only if the knott is deliberately tied loosely... - 20/11/2009 03:20:18 PM 711 Views
This brings up an "Evil Wins, What Next?" scenario I've always wondered about - 20/11/2009 03:39:14 PM 851 Views
Nah - 20/11/2009 04:12:27 PM 721 Views
Read Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy. =) *NM* - 20/11/2009 07:18:01 PM 422 Views
They would have to know the bottom of the ocean very well to create. *NM* - 20/11/2009 05:02:50 PM 361 Views
Wouldn't be too hard, given Rand's trick. *NM* - 20/11/2009 05:12:22 PM 407 Views
You're kidding right? - 20/11/2009 05:31:36 PM 737 Views
Yeah, this has actually been discussed - 20/11/2009 05:50:21 PM 945 Views
Re: Yeah, this has actually been discussed - 21/08/2010 02:19:15 AM 745 Views
Gateway "magic" accounts for this, or most gateways would have STRONG breeze - 20/11/2009 06:43:44 PM 826 Views
Very conducive places, the bottom of the sea and outer space... - 20/11/2009 07:01:56 PM 4200 Views
Knee jerk disagreement without thinking beyond: "I don't like the idea so let's flame it..." - 20/11/2009 07:12:38 PM 966 Views
Actually... - 20/11/2009 09:15:39 PM 803 Views
And your response is even sillier ideas? Think for more than three minutes before responding again. - 20/11/2009 11:08:59 PM 732 Views
I must say... this has been highly entertaining! *NM* - 21/11/2009 01:59:51 AM 714 Views
Yeah... I've been chuckling at this whole thread - 21/11/2009 10:23:51 AM 857 Views
You need to go read FoH again... - 21/11/2009 03:35:01 AM 848 Views
The Silliness Continues-Part IV of Shannow's crazy ways to commit suicide... - 21/11/2009 05:44:34 AM 742 Views
Struggling a bit are you? - 21/11/2009 06:30:13 AM 812 Views
On the limits of power - 21/11/2009 07:32:44 AM 783 Views
Great question. These fundamental issues are the REAL challenges to be overcome, yes... - 21/11/2009 07:50:46 AM 755 Views
Thanks - 21/11/2009 08:03:28 AM 787 Views
Oh, and regarding the new Travelling skill Nynaeve mentions in tGS... - 21/11/2009 08:03:45 AM 798 Views
Ah, thanks - 21/11/2009 08:10:48 AM 727 Views
Actually, I just reread that passage, and now I'm confused again... - 21/11/2009 08:30:17 AM 751 Views
Its pretty simple... - 21/11/2009 08:07:14 PM 709 Views
You don't learn a place when you Travel TO it... - 21/11/2009 08:23:11 PM 734 Views
The same issue again... - 21/11/2009 08:58:37 PM 718 Views
No, you're wrong, and here are the quotes... - 22/11/2009 06:51:06 AM 924 Views
That might mean nothing... - 22/11/2009 06:37:33 PM 826 Views
That does seem inconsistent... - 21/11/2009 09:25:52 PM 968 Views
Since Shannow seems to think disagreeing with him is EVIL... - 21/11/2009 08:38:55 PM 770 Views
Re: On the limits of power - 20/08/2010 06:25:19 PM 726 Views
Such a geek - 20/08/2010 08:08:11 PM 917 Views
The One Power is completely impenetrable to regular matter - 21/11/2009 08:16:58 AM 693 Views
Balefire is much, much easier . - 20/11/2009 08:50:24 PM 738 Views
The Forsaken DON'T want to defeat the Light. - 20/11/2009 09:18:42 PM 840 Views
Why didn't Frodo and Sam just ride the Eagles to Mt. Doom, and toss the Ring then fly back? *NM* - 20/11/2009 10:35:17 PM 404 Views
lol Straight from www.HowMoviesShouldHaveEnded.com *NM* - 21/11/2009 01:15:45 AM 374 Views
The Forsaken are still doing the Light's will. - 21/11/2009 01:42:16 AM 720 Views
Actually here's an even simpler idea: open a gateway into a Black Hole. *NM* - 21/11/2009 01:53:38 AM 484 Views
You can't...there aren't any Black Holes close enough... - 21/11/2009 03:22:38 AM 755 Views
Doubtful - 21/11/2009 03:29:35 AM 700 Views
Let me clarify...you CAN Travel to other solar system... - 21/11/2009 03:39:36 AM 790 Views
You're right, I just went back and checked the sources - 24/11/2009 12:04:09 AM 702 Views
Surely Moridin could channel enough of the True Power... *NM* - 21/11/2009 01:19:05 PM 333 Views
Moridin cannot channel any more of the True Power than he can of the One Power. - 21/11/2009 01:58:30 PM 693 Views
He managed to do great fits with the power he had. - 21/11/2009 05:12:52 PM 672 Views

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