Oh, and regarding the new Travelling skill Nynaeve mentions in tGS...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 21/11/2009 08:03:45 AM
At the Cleansing it was revealed that the likes of Demandred and Cyndane could make new gateways immediately after arriving at the Battle Zone. This defied the existing explanation that you had to spend time getting to know a place before you could make gateways from it.
Personally, I think RJ saw the tactical need to be able to make a lot of gateways quickly in the heat of battle, so he had to change the rule somewhat to explain how this is possible.
Pretty soon after Winter's Heart, if I recall correctly, Rand suddenly mentions that you don't have to know a place to make gateways for short distances (i.e. to destinations in close proximity to the first gateway.) Now this goes against the explanation we had before, as making a gateway does not mean you have to know your destination, but that you have to know where you're Travelling from.
In any case, Rand now makes gateways to places within the same city with no problem. This despite the fact that Skimming was used for such short distance Travelling in the past.
But now, RJ had another problem. The implication of making a gateway FROM somewhere, however short it might be, is that you now KNOW that place. Certainly, when using saidar you make your destination similar to your departure point.
So the net result is that once you've made a gateway from a place, even if it is for a short distance, then you KNOW that part of the Pattern.
In tGS, Nynaeve observes Rand making use of this principle. When he doesn't know a place well enough to Travel from it, he simply makes a "short" gateway to somewhere close by - which now is possible as per Demandred and Cyndane at the Cleansing.
Then he immediately closes this "short" gateway, without actually using it. The purpose of this exercise was to familiarize himself with the area. So now he is able to make a "long" gateway, to anywhere he chooses to go.
The net effect is that he no longer has to wait and familiarize himself with an area. Instead, by using this trick he can Travel anywhere at any time.
The whole of the above obviously begs the question: "Why didn't Asmodean just teach him this trick instead of going into the long explanation of why Skimming is necessary if you know your destination but not your departure point.
And why did Asmodean use Skimming to get to Rhuidean, and not just this much quicker trick, which would have handed him the Choedan Kal without any interference from Rand. In hindsight of course.
Personally, I think RJ saw the tactical need to be able to make a lot of gateways quickly in the heat of battle, so he had to change the rule somewhat to explain how this is possible.
Pretty soon after Winter's Heart, if I recall correctly, Rand suddenly mentions that you don't have to know a place to make gateways for short distances (i.e. to destinations in close proximity to the first gateway.) Now this goes against the explanation we had before, as making a gateway does not mean you have to know your destination, but that you have to know where you're Travelling from.
In any case, Rand now makes gateways to places within the same city with no problem. This despite the fact that Skimming was used for such short distance Travelling in the past.
But now, RJ had another problem. The implication of making a gateway FROM somewhere, however short it might be, is that you now KNOW that place. Certainly, when using saidar you make your destination similar to your departure point.
So the net result is that once you've made a gateway from a place, even if it is for a short distance, then you KNOW that part of the Pattern.
In tGS, Nynaeve observes Rand making use of this principle. When he doesn't know a place well enough to Travel from it, he simply makes a "short" gateway to somewhere close by - which now is possible as per Demandred and Cyndane at the Cleansing.
Then he immediately closes this "short" gateway, without actually using it. The purpose of this exercise was to familiarize himself with the area. So now he is able to make a "long" gateway, to anywhere he chooses to go.
The net effect is that he no longer has to wait and familiarize himself with an area. Instead, by using this trick he can Travel anywhere at any time.
The whole of the above obviously begs the question: "Why didn't Asmodean just teach him this trick instead of going into the long explanation of why Skimming is necessary if you know your destination but not your departure point.
And why did Asmodean use Skimming to get to Rhuidean, and not just this much quicker trick, which would have handed him the Choedan Kal without any interference from Rand. In hindsight of course.
If the Forsaken really wanted to defeat the Light - gateways at the bottom of the ocean...
20/11/2009 02:02:59 PM
- 1844 Views
I've actually thought that would be a great way to make a power plant.
20/11/2009 02:48:21 PM
- 854 Views
The Forsaken don't think like that
20/11/2009 02:57:27 PM
- 873 Views
I specifically referred to Ishamael, who shares none of those motivations with the other Forsaken...
20/11/2009 03:11:26 PM
- 1097 Views
What in the world... outer space?? This is fantasy, not sci-fi *NM*
20/11/2009 03:08:26 PM
- 431 Views
RJ has stated that channelers can Travel to other planets, even other solar systems...
20/11/2009 03:12:37 PM
- 759 Views
I didn't expect him to answer that question, it was just something I was wondering about
20/11/2009 04:06:53 PM
- 810 Views
OK...
20/11/2009 05:15:32 PM
- 718 Views
Moghedien talks about how they travelled to other stars in the Age of Legends...
20/11/2009 06:09:17 PM
- 880 Views
Because it is a world that is undergoing an industrial revolution
21/11/2009 01:19:28 AM
- 726 Views
This brings up an "Evil Wins, What Next?" scenario I've always wondered about
20/11/2009 03:39:14 PM
- 837 Views
The DO doesn't have the motivations of the forsaken, he doesn't think like a human...
22/11/2009 03:38:15 PM
- 832 Views
They would have to know the bottom of the ocean very well to create. *NM*
20/11/2009 05:02:50 PM
- 354 Views
Wouldn't be too hard, given Rand's trick. *NM*
20/11/2009 05:12:22 PM
- 400 Views
Intense preasure would kill you before you could weave or a hell of a shield bubble *NM*
20/11/2009 07:01:58 PM
- 488 Views
Gateway "magic" accounts for this, or most gateways would have STRONG breeze
20/11/2009 06:43:44 PM
- 811 Views
Very conducive places, the bottom of the sea and outer space...
20/11/2009 07:01:56 PM
- 4182 Views
Knee jerk disagreement without thinking beyond: "I don't like the idea so let's flame it..."
20/11/2009 07:12:38 PM
- 945 Views
And your response is even sillier ideas? Think for more than three minutes before responding again.
20/11/2009 11:08:59 PM
- 715 Views
You need to go read FoH again...
21/11/2009 03:35:01 AM
- 833 Views
The Silliness Continues-Part IV of Shannow's crazy ways to commit suicide...
21/11/2009 05:44:34 AM
- 728 Views
On the limits of power
21/11/2009 07:32:44 AM
- 763 Views
Great question. These fundamental issues are the REAL challenges to be overcome, yes...
21/11/2009 07:50:46 AM
- 741 Views
Fluids CAN move across gateways on their own. We saw it with the draft of wind in tGS. *NM*
21/11/2009 01:32:46 PM
- 422 Views
Oh, and regarding the new Travelling skill Nynaeve mentions in tGS...
21/11/2009 08:03:45 AM
- 781 Views
Ah, thanks
21/11/2009 08:10:48 AM
- 713 Views
Actually, I just reread that passage, and now I'm confused again...
21/11/2009 08:30:17 AM
- 736 Views
Its pretty simple...
21/11/2009 08:07:14 PM
- 690 Views
You don't learn a place when you Travel TO it...
21/11/2009 08:23:11 PM
- 717 Views
The same issue again...
21/11/2009 08:58:37 PM
- 701 Views
They might have shared Gateways, so only those who wove them know the area? *NM*
21/11/2009 10:00:04 PM
- 363 Views
That has to be the first sensible question broached in this thread...
21/11/2009 09:18:59 PM
- 887 Views
The simplest explanation'd be that GWs can't be opened in water, since it moves/changes constantly
20/11/2009 07:27:08 PM
- 659 Views
Or balefire Rand. Wait a few generations near Dragonmount, kidnap all children born on the slopes...
20/11/2009 09:07:46 PM
- 739 Views
Why didn't Frodo and Sam just ride the Eagles to Mt. Doom, and toss the Ring then fly back? *NM*
20/11/2009 10:35:17 PM
- 397 Views
Actually here's an even simpler idea: open a gateway into a Black Hole. *NM*
21/11/2009 01:53:38 AM
- 477 Views
You can't...there aren't any Black Holes close enough...
21/11/2009 03:22:38 AM
- 741 Views
Doubtful
21/11/2009 03:29:35 AM
- 683 Views
Surely Moridin could channel enough of the True Power... *NM*
21/11/2009 01:19:05 PM
- 324 Views
Moridin cannot channel any more of the True Power than he can of the One Power.
21/11/2009 01:58:30 PM
- 676 Views