I'll help you out. In the battle against Rahvin and Sevanna's boyfriend's armies, Rand attacks forces up to 5 miles away. He then also says that this is effectively the maximum distance he can reach. This was with the little man angreal, so you can maybe half that distance to be conservative, for when he channels unaided. Although it is not certain that he would have to reduce his distance without the angreal - he may just not be able to make weaves as powerful, but at the same distance.
Either way, we are talking a distance of miles here.[/quote]
Miles where he can make weaves that don't require him to know the place!
Your argument is like saying that since Rand can make a fireball anywhere with knowing the place, he can open Gateways without knowing the place!
Did you read my post? I showed how useless this was!
And what happens when the gateway into space opens? He gets sucked into space himself! Or he asphyxiates because of the amount of air being sucked out of the atmosphere around him.
Plus, with this kind of an "open plug" at the bottom of the ocean, you'll promptly get a powerful whirlpool, further confusing Ishamael, and maybe even preventing a second gateway.
Sorry. Bob cannot be my uncle till he makes sense.
Dude, are you thinking of the consequences of your action? The moment he opens a gateway into space, he's going to get sucked into it. I highly doubt even the strongest channeler can withstand or dam such forces. They cannot even defy gravity and fly, using just a weave!
And what sphere of air is going to be sufficient against the sucking force a gateway into space will create?
I mean really. There are whacko ideas about OP use out there, but this is just plain nonsense.
Either way, we are talking a distance of miles here.[/quote]
Miles where he can make weaves that don't require him to know the place!
Your argument is like saying that since Rand can make a fireball anywhere with knowing the place, he can open Gateways without knowing the place!
As for not knowing the sea floor - he has his new trick from tGS, described by Nynaeve.
Did you read my post? I showed how useless this was!
But even better, he can simply make a gateway from in front of his ship to the sea floor - facing AWAY from him. The result would be a jet of water of unimaginable strength blasting out of the opening away from the ship. Then all he needs to do is spin a second gateway, facing the first one, 1 milimetre away from it. This second gateway opens into space.
And what happens when the gateway into space opens? He gets sucked into space himself! Or he asphyxiates because of the amount of air being sucked out of the atmosphere around him.
Plus, with this kind of an "open plug" at the bottom of the ocean, you'll promptly get a powerful whirlpool, further confusing Ishamael, and maybe even preventing a second gateway.
The result is the massive jet of water from the first gateway blasting straight through the second one and emptying into space.
Now he just inverts and hides these weaves with Illusion, and Bob's your uncle.
Now he just inverts and hides these weaves with Illusion, and Bob's your uncle.
Sorry. Bob cannot be my uncle till he makes sense.
Hell, he doesn't even have to use a ship. He can sit in a cave in the Blight somewhere and complete the whole operation in minutes. In that case he just needs to make the gateway to space first, and the one opening to the sea floor, second. And even better, he should make the opening into space maybe a foot larger than the one into the sea, to make sure the entire water stream from the smaller gateway fits into it without any hassle.
Dude, are you thinking of the consequences of your action? The moment he opens a gateway into space, he's going to get sucked into it. I highly doubt even the strongest channeler can withstand or dam such forces. They cannot even defy gravity and fly, using just a weave!
And lastly, he should encapsulate this little contraption with a sphere of Air that is sealed off, unless he wants the earth's atmosphere to also drain away into space. Heck, come to think of it, maybe he actually WANTS to do that too.
And what sphere of air is going to be sufficient against the sucking force a gateway into space will create?
I mean really. There are whacko ideas about OP use out there, but this is just plain nonsense.
Fionwe - Are there really limits on the durability of a wall of air? When lifting something with air we see it but once you have something in place I don't remember any case where it can break down. Things made with the power are described as eternal and indestructible no matter what mundane (not one power) power is placed against them.
Going to the specifics of this theory, a shield of air against vacuum has to withstand a force of 1 Atmosphere which is no biggy. We see Rand do it when warding against the differential of one against a half atmosphere when he sit atop Dragonmount.
To ward against the pressure of sea bottom is more problematic since there the pressure is 100s of atmospheres. Still walls of air are supposed to be indestructible. Are they weaker then a sheet of thick iron (which is capable of protecting a submarine from such pressures)? I suppose if he's desperate he can even make the cage out of cuendilar.
Supposing it works, there are 1,260,000,000,000,000,000,000 liters of waters on our planet (1.26 X 10^21 liters). If you lose 10 liters per second with these Gateways, it would take 399,260,000,000 years (4 X 10^11 years)! to lose it all to space. A ridiculously long time, much longer than the approximate age of the Earth. And if you didn't place this Gateway in space very far from the planet those escaping waters would just be captured back by the planet's gravitational field and fall back on the planet.
Anyway the bigger question this thread made me think about is:
Do inanimate objects move on their own across a Gateway? I think the answer is no. Only living being have the capacity to decide to move. Inanimate objects do no though energy (like light) does.
Edit to add - I didn't understand the part in tGS about the new technique Nynaeve finds. What is it?
This message last edited by guttering flame on 21/11/2009 at 07:57:12 AM
If the Forsaken really wanted to defeat the Light - gateways at the bottom of the ocean...
- 20/11/2009 02:02:59 PM
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I've actually thought that would be a great way to make a power plant.
- 20/11/2009 02:48:21 PM
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The Forsaken don't think like that
- 20/11/2009 02:57:27 PM
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I specifically referred to Ishamael, who shares none of those motivations with the other Forsaken...
- 20/11/2009 03:11:26 PM
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What in the world... outer space?? This is fantasy, not sci-fi 
*NM*
- 20/11/2009 03:08:26 PM
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*NM*
- 20/11/2009 03:08:26 PM
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RJ has stated that channelers can Travel to other planets, even other solar systems...
- 20/11/2009 03:12:37 PM
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I didn't expect him to answer that question, it was just something I was wondering about
- 20/11/2009 04:06:53 PM
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OK...
- 20/11/2009 05:15:32 PM
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Moghedien talks about how they travelled to other stars in the Age of Legends...
- 20/11/2009 06:09:17 PM
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Because it is a world that is undergoing an industrial revolution
- 21/11/2009 01:19:28 AM
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This brings up an "Evil Wins, What Next?" scenario I've always wondered about
- 20/11/2009 03:39:14 PM
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The DO doesn't have the motivations of the forsaken, he doesn't think like a human...
- 22/11/2009 03:38:15 PM
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They would have to know the bottom of the ocean very well to create. *NM*
- 20/11/2009 05:02:50 PM
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Wouldn't be too hard, given Rand's trick. *NM*
- 20/11/2009 05:12:22 PM
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Intense preasure would kill you before you could weave or a hell of a shield bubble *NM*
- 20/11/2009 07:01:58 PM
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Gateway "magic" accounts for this, or most gateways would have STRONG breeze
- 20/11/2009 06:43:44 PM
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Very conducive places, the bottom of the sea and outer space...
- 20/11/2009 07:01:56 PM
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Knee jerk disagreement without thinking beyond: "I don't like the idea so let's flame it..."
- 20/11/2009 07:12:38 PM
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And your response is even sillier ideas? Think for more than three minutes before responding again.
- 20/11/2009 11:08:59 PM
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*NM*
You need to go read FoH again...
- 21/11/2009 03:35:01 AM
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The Silliness Continues-Part IV of Shannow's crazy ways to commit suicide...
- 21/11/2009 05:44:34 AM
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On the limits of power
- 21/11/2009 07:32:44 AM
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Great question. These fundamental issues are the REAL challenges to be overcome, yes...
- 21/11/2009 07:50:46 AM
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Fluids CAN move across gateways on their own. We saw it with the draft of wind in tGS. *NM*
- 21/11/2009 01:32:46 PM
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Oh, and regarding the new Travelling skill Nynaeve mentions in tGS...
- 21/11/2009 08:03:45 AM
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Ah, thanks
- 21/11/2009 08:10:48 AM
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Actually, I just reread that passage, and now I'm confused again...
- 21/11/2009 08:30:17 AM
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Its pretty simple...
- 21/11/2009 08:07:14 PM
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You don't learn a place when you Travel TO it...
- 21/11/2009 08:23:11 PM
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The same issue again...
- 21/11/2009 08:58:37 PM
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They might have shared Gateways, so only those who wove them know the area? *NM*
- 21/11/2009 10:00:04 PM
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That has to be the first sensible question broached in this thread...
- 21/11/2009 09:18:59 PM
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- 21/11/2009 09:18:59 PM
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The simplest explanation'd be that GWs can't be opened in water, since it moves/changes constantly
- 20/11/2009 07:27:08 PM
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Or balefire Rand. Wait a few generations near Dragonmount, kidnap all children born on the slopes...
- 20/11/2009 09:07:46 PM
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Why didn't Frodo and Sam just ride the Eagles to Mt. Doom, and toss the Ring then fly back? *NM*
- 20/11/2009 10:35:17 PM
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Actually here's an even simpler idea: open a gateway into a Black Hole. *NM*
- 21/11/2009 01:53:38 AM
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You can't...there aren't any Black Holes close enough...
- 21/11/2009 03:22:38 AM
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Doubtful
- 21/11/2009 03:29:35 AM
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Surely Moridin could channel enough of the True Power... *NM*
- 21/11/2009 01:19:05 PM
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Moridin cannot channel any more of the True Power than he can of the One Power.
- 21/11/2009 01:58:30 PM
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