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Don't avoid the question... Shannow Send a noteboard - 20/11/2009 03:27:23 PM

Moridin is far more evil than Semirhage. Semirhage likes torturing individuals. Moridin want's to kill all of humanity.

Would it give you satisfaction to see Cadsuane put pigtails in his hair, dress him in a nappy and slap his bottom because he was such a naughty boy?

My point is, evil should lose yes, but it should not be ridiculed. Else the story loses its suspense.

Semirhage being balefired is good. Semirhage being spanked like a little girl is a farce.


There are some themes in the book, and this one was pretty obvious. It's made clear over the course of several chapters that Semirhage cannot be broken or intimidated, and even from her own PoV she says that she was ready for hot coals and other torture and even looking forward to it. This was the dilemma posed to Cadsuane, who needed information from her. Cadsuane also found herself wondering about how similar she is to Semirhage.

Therefore, when Cadsuane figured out that losing her status as a legendary Aes Sedai was the worst nightmare she could experience, she applied it to Semirhage, who is extremely proud of her evil reputation. Therefore humiliation broke this legendary Forsaken. It even reduced her to tears.

It's therefore illogical to say that it would be offensive to see Moridin in pigtails. It's not about Cadsuane or Robert Jordan finding ways to humiliate the Shadow. It's about people trying to find ways to break the unbreakable. Rand had the same problem with Graendal - he couldn't find out how to destroy a sneaky woman who was more intelligent than him, and so he commited a mass atrocity.

This is why I am convinced Demandred is next - because where there is a source of intense hatred, it is easy to bait. Moghedien will once again be lured by revenge against Nynaeve and Cyndane against Rand. All the Forsaken have weaknesses, and that was Semirhage's.


I ask again. Would you enjoy reading a scene where Moridin is completely ridiculed? Let's say his trousers get pulled off and Cadsuane takes her slipper off and spanks his naked bottom until his cheeks are nice and red.

Just answer the question. Would you enjoy that?


I know why you avoid it. Your favourite Forsaken went out in a blaze of glory. Comparatively speaking at least, compared to Semirhage's humiliation.

So now that her story arch has ended, it is easy for you to read about the other Forsaken coming to more humiliating ends. In fact, it is actually PREFERABLE for you to see that, since that makes Lanfear's end all the more spectacular.

My point is merely that all the thematic references and lectures about symbolism sound nice and grand, but they cannot paint over what really motivates us readers.

Emotional gratification! Or what do you think, "Fan of Lanfear"?

This message last edited by Shannow on 20/11/2009 at 03:31:43 PM
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Semirhage vs Cadsuane - in Sanderson's words... - 19/11/2009 09:58:19 PM 3068 Views
The two of you are pathetic - 19/11/2009 10:09:34 PM 1565 Views
Your problem is... - 19/11/2009 10:21:40 PM 1474 Views
Well said. It takes something away from the story. *NM* - 19/11/2009 10:34:41 PM 669 Views
No. - 20/11/2009 08:15:32 AM 1265 Views
And now he's not "blind" anymore - 20/11/2009 08:20:56 AM 1176 Views
*Cough* MoridinDemandredTaim *Cough* *NM* - 21/11/2009 06:16:14 PM 560 Views
*cough* philosopherguywhosdonenothingcrazyperson *cough* - 22/11/2009 05:19:20 PM 1282 Views
Well said. Compare her to, say, Mogheidan. - 20/11/2009 08:17:57 AM 1256 Views
True to a degree - 20/11/2009 08:26:20 AM 1181 Views
There's a little more to it as well - 20/11/2009 08:51:03 AM 1144 Views
You know, I agree - 19/11/2009 11:12:49 PM 1231 Views
But she gave us a clue as to how she might be broken. - 20/11/2009 08:17:04 AM 1077 Views
I would love to see tSR and tFoH from Moiraine's perspective - 20/11/2009 08:22:55 AM 1046 Views
I imagine it took A LOT of frustration and anger management. *NM* - 20/11/2009 08:27:13 AM 606 Views
I don't think Moiraine became meek at all - 20/11/2009 11:06:05 AM 1038 Views
That's what I meant, actually - 21/11/2009 03:44:26 AM 1060 Views
I don't think Rand will do it, though - 20/11/2009 11:10:27 AM 995 Views
Re: You know, I agree - 09/05/2010 09:08:58 PM 1171 Views
I agree with Cannoli completely. (Did I just say that?) - 19/11/2009 11:18:09 PM 1227 Views
And I agree with Rand al'Thor. - 19/11/2009 11:35:55 PM 1083 Views
And I agree with Fanatic-Templar. - 20/11/2009 10:40:26 PM 1136 Views
Ditto *NM* - 21/06/2010 01:15:04 PM 533 Views
I didn't like it for the same reason I don't like the Aes Sedai much anymore - 20/11/2009 07:40:31 AM 1122 Views
And also - 20/11/2009 11:08:39 AM 1097 Views
Actually, it did, but it didn't care about him at all. - 20/11/2009 10:21:02 PM 1003 Views
Re: The two of you are pathetic - 08/05/2010 12:05:51 AM 1133 Views
personally, I loved the scene - 19/11/2009 10:10:44 PM 1278 Views
Agreed. I thought it worked. *NM* - 19/11/2009 10:40:04 PM 604 Views
Are you feeling all right? If you are, Cannoli is right, and you're pathetic. - 19/11/2009 10:18:54 PM 1223 Views
See my response to Cannoli. *NM* - 19/11/2009 10:25:15 PM 654 Views
That was barely a response... - 20/11/2009 12:43:07 AM 1090 Views
There's always more than one way for a story to "logically" progress - 20/11/2009 08:07:44 AM 1099 Views
Re: That was barely a response... - 08/05/2010 12:24:55 AM 1161 Views
Evil IS cool! This is storytelling, not a morality play. - 20/11/2009 08:01:17 AM 1104 Views
On the other hand - 20/11/2009 11:13:54 AM 1040 Views
Re: Evil IS cool! This is storytelling, not a morality play. - 20/11/2009 10:50:07 PM 1054 Views
Yeah, Semi never got much screentime - 21/11/2009 03:47:27 AM 1087 Views
Re: Yeah, Semi never got much screentime - 21/11/2009 04:09:26 AM 1080 Views
Re: Evil IS cool! This is storytelling, not a morality play. - 08/05/2010 01:17:07 AM 1126 Views
Oh, they're quite good at killing people. - 08/05/2010 06:47:35 AM 1033 Views
Re: Oh, they're quite good at killing people. - 09/05/2010 06:09:38 PM 1147 Views
Actually, it's why they're still alive. - 09/05/2010 06:32:22 PM 970 Views
Re: Actually, it's why they're still alive. - 21/06/2010 01:15:19 AM 1017 Views
Re: Actually, it's why they're still alive. - 21/06/2010 01:32:25 AM 1105 Views
Are they? Why are Mat, Perrin and the Wondergirls still alive? - 13/05/2010 12:47:57 AM 1036 Views
Nobody's even tried to kill them since Ishamael died, until he gave the order again in KoD. - 13/05/2010 01:13:02 AM 1004 Views
It'd be harder to kill them now as they have come into their own power - 21/06/2010 01:18:31 AM 986 Views
... - 21/06/2010 01:34:51 AM 1071 Views
If they're good at killing people - 06/07/2010 10:00:41 PM 866 Views
I loved that scene - it's actually dog-eared because it's one of my favorites. - 19/11/2009 10:37:33 PM 1143 Views
exactly *NM* - 19/11/2009 11:06:48 PM 600 Views
Really liked her complaints about the food - 20/11/2009 10:42:57 PM 1116 Views
I'd love to see Mat spanking Caddy as he did Joline - 19/11/2009 10:48:21 PM 1188 Views
I'd like to see that too . - 19/11/2009 11:40:26 PM 1013 Views
I actually think Mat needs a spanking. *NM* - 20/11/2009 10:23:46 PM 597 Views
I had no problem with the spanking... - 19/11/2009 11:07:07 PM 1149 Views
Best news I've heard all day *NM* - 19/11/2009 11:09:49 PM 689 Views
Actually... what happened to Semirhage was BEAUTIFUL. - 19/11/2009 11:28:29 PM 1205 Views
I agree with your second half - 20/11/2009 08:27:07 AM 1031 Views
The Forsaken aren't lame, they just aren't that special - 20/11/2009 12:30:51 PM 1043 Views
Their lack of special-ness has made them become lame villians - 21/11/2009 03:50:50 AM 1065 Views
She is dead to me! - 20/11/2009 12:25:42 AM 907 Views
I agree with Cannoli and Fionwe's on the best way to handle Semirhage - 20/11/2009 04:17:41 AM 995 Views
Book 14 you think - 20/11/2009 04:55:29 AM 1024 Views
So would you enjoy seeing Moridin pulled over Cadsuane's knee and spanked? - 20/11/2009 07:48:45 AM 1136 Views
You're upset about the spanking and have missed the reason for it. - 20/11/2009 03:05:50 PM 1173 Views
Don't avoid the question... - 20/11/2009 03:27:23 PM 1085 Views
I'm not avoiding anything, just pointing out how silly this post is - 20/11/2009 04:50:17 PM 1066 Views
Hehe... - 20/11/2009 05:25:56 PM 1080 Views
Re: Hehe... - 21/11/2009 10:44:06 AM 1067 Views
- 20/11/2009 10:36:36 PM 988 Views
Hey now... imagine how Balthamel's fans feel - 21/11/2009 02:21:48 AM 1041 Views
I think Aginor was the worst. - 21/11/2009 04:10:51 AM 990 Views
Re: - 21/11/2009 10:26:53 AM 1052 Views
The thing that bothers me is that you're right - 20/11/2009 08:10:44 AM 1032 Views
Except that Demandred is the one Darksider who knows about Elayne - 21/11/2009 06:30:26 PM 1114 Views
Re: Except that Demandred is the one Darksider who knows about Elayne - 22/11/2009 10:13:44 AM 1334 Views
He was dispatched 'fairly easily' because he was betrayed by Moridin . - 22/11/2009 08:09:38 PM 964 Views
because thats what sadists are! - 20/11/2009 04:03:31 PM 1316 Views
How many people - 08/05/2010 12:30:17 AM 1028 Views
At least two. - 10/05/2010 02:10:31 PM 904 Views
Re: At least two. - 21/06/2010 01:24:53 AM 1162 Views
Shame has traditionally been one of the greatest ways of enforcing public order - 21/06/2010 02:55:54 AM 1021 Views
Re: Semirhage vs Cadsuane - in Sanderson's words... - 29/06/2010 10:29:51 PM 1235 Views
Cadsuane was brilliant in that scene. - 02/07/2010 12:41:06 AM 1078 Views

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