Actually, you are the one placing Lanfear immensely high, my list reduced the strength difference... - Edit 1
Before modification by Shannow at 19/11/2009 05:06:03 PM
I disagree. I think Sanderson has given us important new info that throws the female strength list into turmoil.
Here's why I say so:
1. It is a fallacy that RJ said Nynaeve was as strong as the average female Forsaken. That was our INTERPRETATION. But if I recall correctly, what RJ actually said, was that Nynaeve was as strong as MOST of the female Forsaken.
After Sanderson's quote, I take that to mean that MOST of the female Forsaken are not stronger than Nynaeve.
Here's why I say so:
1. It is a fallacy that RJ said Nynaeve was as strong as the average female Forsaken. That was our INTERPRETATION. But if I recall correctly, what RJ actually said, was that Nynaeve was as strong as MOST of the female Forsaken.
After Sanderson's quote, I take that to mean that MOST of the female Forsaken are not stronger than Nynaeve.
That was because RJ said that quote when FoH was out, making Nynaeve at least equal or as strong as Moghedien, Semirhage and Mesaana - and weaker than Graendal and Lanfear. Cyndane was not around. That still holds with what RJ said. If Cyndane is really that weak then Lanfear was enormously powerful compared to Graendal, and I find that very unlikely. On the other hand, it fits in with Semirhage's statement that Lanfear be given to her.
The Cyndane quote is an interesting one, and it would be great if Sanderson could clarify the situation for us. But the fact remains that he has not refuted the fact that she is significantly weakened, nor has he refuted the fact that she is below Nynaeve in strength.
In fact, his initial reaction to KCF's question was that only exceptional women are above Nynaeve, and when KCF referred to Cyndane, he was very dismissive of her strength.
In fact, his initial reaction to KCF's question was that only exceptional women are above Nynaeve, and when KCF referred to Cyndane, he was very dismissive of her strength.
To be honest, his next answer scares me. The fact that he argued with Maria over her strength which is clearly on a strength list is horrendous. He initially said that Cyndane was very very weak... who knows if he was confused with Cyndane and Cetalia or Cabriana. Then he said she was weakened, then he said her strength is what we expect it to be.
I agree that the so called definitive strength list hinges around Cyndane's placement, and until Sanderson clarifies the confusion he caused, that placement is now in doubt.
If Cyndane is weaker than Nynaeve it not only throws the female Forsaken into turmoil but the males too and it makes Lanfear so strong it's scary.
Still, we now know Mesaana overrated herself, and we know there are only 6 women above Nynaeve.
Well Mesaana didn't overrate herself actually. She said she matched Semirhage well in most areas and had strength where Semirhage had weaknesses. I still think this is true - Mesaana might be good at the weather for instance - we know that Semirhage is not.
Lanfear, Alivia and Sharina are definitely there. Talaan and Semirhage MIGHT be there. We're not sure of Someryn and we're not sure of Cyndane and Graendal.
Lanfear, Alivia and Sharina for certain. I think there's almost a 100% chance that Cyndane and Graendal are there too because many quotes in the series support this. Someryn is conjecture, but she is probably Forsaken strength.
It is also conceivable that Cyndane is now equal to Nynaeve, making Graendal weaker than Nynaeve.
I don't believe that someone of Nynaeve's strength could fight Alivia with a strong angreal, no matter what her knowledge.
With the new info Sanderson so graciously provided, I'm expecting further clarity in the near future.
I just want him to look at the list before he answers.
Now we just need to get people to ask him. I see that this topic is now being discussed on Theoryland, Dragonmount, 13th depository and even on ASOIAF boards.
Surely the level of interest will result in more people asking him these kinds of questions.
Surely the level of interest will result in more people asking him these kinds of questions.
We should move on to the males. They're actually more of an enigma.
The reason Lanfear appears to be so incredibly powerful, is because you insist on placing Cyndane above the average female Forsaken. In doing so you are saying that even a reduced strength Lanfear is STILL stronger than Semirhage, Mesaana and Nynaeve.
If instead, you go with Sanderson's second, rectified quote, which places Cyndane significantly weaker, and which does not refute that Cyndane is below Lanfear, then the female Forsaken are all much closer together.
You will now have the following:
Lanfear
Alivia, Sharina
Nynaeve, Semirhage
Cyndane
Graendal
Mesaana
Moghedien
Suddenly, Lanfear is not greatly above Semirhage, and is not farther above Graendal than she was above Mesaana or Semirhage on your list.
Personally, I think this makes much more sense.
The entire strong Graendal argument is based largely one quote by Moridin, which was made casually, without much interest, and does not really tell us anything other than that Graendal could beat Sammael if she struck first and beat him to the draw.
After all, he had no doubt never seen Sammael and Graendal fight it out before, so he had no idea what tricks either might have up their sleeve.
Anyway, that's my list. But I suspect Sanderson will clarify everything before long in any case, if the current trend continues.