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Look at it this way... Shannow Send a noteboard - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM
I'm stating that there is ambiguity in both cases, and that we are both fitting the text to our viewpoint. I said much the same in a previous thread about Semirhage's placement. I said that the quotes in tGS are ambiguous, and that they don't give out anything groundbreaking.

The Egwene Moghedien quote comes up against one set of facts that are irrefutable and not open to question:

RJ stated clearly that Egwene and co. came next after the Forsaken (specifically Moggy), in the female strength tree.

Women who are one step below others are not helpless in a battle against those stronger women. There are hoards of other issues involved, and a mere one step increase in strength means nothing.

Taken together, these two facts show that Egwene can battle Moggy, and Moggy wouldn't be able to wipe the floor with her.

And this is supported by Moggy's statement that Elayne was strong enough to be troublesome. If Graendal stating that Someryn was not negligible is to be accepted to mean Someryn at least equals her, the what are we to make of this statement?

It isn't as if Moggy didn't have the much stronger Nynaeve to distract her. She still takes time to comment on Elayne's strength.

Taken together, these make me think my interpretation of Egwene's quote is correct. You disagree. Let's leave it at that.


RJ said that Moghedien was a step up from Egwene, but in the same breath he said that Egwene was a step up from Moiraine.

Now we know that Egwene is MUCH stronger than Moiraine, so, based on RJ's comment, it is very likely that the same gap exists between her and Moghedien.

In fact, Egwene's OWN QUOTE supports this perfectly.



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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2273 Views
Sounds good - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1149 Views
Re: Sounds good - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1224 Views
Re: Someryn - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1192 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1097 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1200 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1112 Views
As I understand it... - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1200 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1247 Views
Agreed. - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 1057 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 855 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1139 Views
Re: Sounds good - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 1042 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 1046 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 1067 Views
One problem... - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1240 Views
No... - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1146 Views
That's not a problem. - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1098 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 997 Views
Sorry buddy - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1118 Views
Re: Sorry buddy - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 1040 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1281 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1347 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1139 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 617 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 634 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1185 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 839 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 660 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1128 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 904 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 1048 Views
IMO... - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1167 Views
I don't know... - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 1037 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1346 Views
That just doesn't make sense... - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1162 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 641 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 999 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 887 Views
I don't think... - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1219 Views
Damane never recieve special status... - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 1031 Views
Good point... - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 1054 Views
Thing is... - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1102 Views
My point was... - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1092 Views
I agree *NM* - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 607 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 1010 Views
Sera must be stronger... - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 1008 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 1053 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 1009 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 1061 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 1062 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 925 Views
You misunderstand me... - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 1004 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 1001 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 642 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 479 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 856 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1140 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 908 Views
I have one problem with your list. - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1102 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 962 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 1012 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 1041 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1107 Views
I think it goes like this: - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 1053 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1104 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 1015 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 1049 Views
Where does she say this? - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 1068 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 1067 Views
Here are the quotes... - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 1075 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 974 Views
I could say the same... - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 976 Views
So let me get this straight... - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 989 Views
No... - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 1047 Views
Look at it this way... - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 1016 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 932 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1094 Views
Totally disagree... - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1132 Views
Re: Totally disagree... - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 1021 Views
Males likely go like this... - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 995 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 998 Views
Disagree... - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1094 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 952 Views
About the top 6... - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 1026 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 1082 Views
That's ridiculous... - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 962 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 1011 Views
Well... - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 1010 Views
This is getting idiotic... - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 1007 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 1009 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 974 Views
Disagreement - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1109 Views
Some more from Brandon... - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 1006 Views
So we're back where we started? - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 813 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1099 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 963 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 1039 Views
Thoughts - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1112 Views

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