We've been through this before. Basically, RJ said the top six Foresaken were the best at physical and political survival. If Moridin could wipe the floor with Graendal, he would have wiped the floor with her and forced a cour'sourva on her and made her do as he wished. He doesn't because she's a considerable threat.
Rand isn't scared of Graendal at all. He is scared that she might ESCAPE him if he confronted her.
And how could she do that, if he is so overwhelmingly strong?
Why not gate in on her, linked with Nynaeve? Surely he could have beaten her. If she escaped, he could easily follow her, like he did Rahvin.
That he did not even think this an option only proves one thing... Graendal is damn tough to beat.
Where?
LTT/Rand think they could weave fire to kill Lanfear, but she's able to counter his unseen weaves. Why would she let a weave of fire slip by?
Then why did he need to CK to beat her?
Never had an argument with this.
Why probably weaker? This pedestal placement of Lanfear is mystifying and frustrating. She's uber strong. so is Rand. If someone can match Rand, someone can match Lanfear!
And Nynaeve was considerably weaker than Alivia in WH. Reanne said this, and we don't even know if she could tell a woman's potential. Nynaeve has grown much, since then.
And he had an angreal, as did she, and we don't know which was stronger.
Also, you forget that Lanfear wasn't fighting to kill. She could have finished him up any time, but she was toying with him. Maybe Rand could have stopped that, but any attempt of his to kill he would have been countered.
Yes. She is talking about the fact that where generally there should be some doubt as to who would win, Rand always seems to win, be it Rahvin or Ishy. Clearly, more than OP strength and skill are at play.
Rand isn't scared of Graendal at all. He is scared that she might ESCAPE him if he confronted her.
And how could she do that, if he is so overwhelmingly strong?
Why not gate in on her, linked with Nynaeve? Surely he could have beaten her. If she escaped, he could easily follow her, like he did Rahvin.
That he did not even think this an option only proves one thing... Graendal is damn tough to beat.
RJ himself has confirmed that Rand could have ended the battle with Lanfear at the Docks if he was willing to kill a woman.
Where?
LTT/Rand think they could weave fire to kill Lanfear, but she's able to counter his unseen weaves. Why would she let a weave of fire slip by?
Rand would wipe the floor with Graendal.
Then why did he need to CK to beat her?
Graendal is weaker than Cyndane, who is weaker than Nynaeve.
Never had an argument with this.
Nynaeve is CONSIDERABLY weaker than Alivia, who is most proabably weaker than Lanfear.
Why probably weaker? This pedestal placement of Lanfear is mystifying and frustrating. She's uber strong. so is Rand. If someone can match Rand, someone can match Lanfear!
And Nynaeve was considerably weaker than Alivia in WH. Reanne said this, and we don't even know if she could tell a woman's potential. Nynaeve has grown much, since then.
And Rand could have defeated Lanfear at the Docks, if he wanted to, despite not being at full strength yet.
And he had an angreal, as did she, and we don't know which was stronger.
Also, you forget that Lanfear wasn't fighting to kill. She could have finished him up any time, but she was toying with him. Maybe Rand could have stopped that, but any attempt of his to kill he would have been countered.
Graendal would stand no chance against Rand. She acknowledged as much when she said she'd never face him head on if Rahvin and Ishamael fell before him.
Yes. She is talking about the fact that where generally there should be some doubt as to who would win, Rand always seems to win, be it Rahvin or Ishy. Clearly, more than OP strength and skill are at play.
Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM
- 2172 Views
Sounds good
18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM
- 1082 Views
Re: Sounds good
18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM
- 1122 Views
Re: Someryn
18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM
- 1129 Views
As I understand it...
18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM
- 1106 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things...
18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM
- 1149 Views
Re: Sounds good
18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM
- 956 Views
Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve?
18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM
- 1085 Views
Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve?
18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM
- 1181 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may...
18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM
- 949 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may...
18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM
- 977 Views
But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no.
18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM
- 1018 Views
Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no.
18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM
- 982 Views
One problem...
18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM
- 1148 Views
No...
18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM
- 1050 Views
That's not a problem.
18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM
- 995 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength?
18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM
- 901 Views
Sorry buddy
18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM
- 1024 Views
Re: Sorry buddy
18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM
- 939 Views
Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question?
18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM
- 1011 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength
18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM
- 1193 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet...
18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM
- 1230 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien.
18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM
- 1038 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength
18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM
- 1072 Views
As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM*
18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM
- 594 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM*
18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM
- 618 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit.
18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM
- 1027 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text?
19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM
- 810 Views
Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet...
10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM
- 994 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM
- 909 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve!
18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM
- 953 Views
IMO...
18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM
- 1068 Views
I don't know...
18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM
- 936 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level...
18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM
- 1247 Views
That just doesn't make sense...
18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM
- 1064 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but...
18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM
- 895 Views
But why doesn't it make sense?
18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM
- 794 Views
Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically...
18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM
- 959 Views
All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential.
18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM
- 963 Views
I don't think...
18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM
- 1128 Views
Damane never recieve special status...
18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM
- 924 Views
Good point...
18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM
- 958 Views
Thing is...
18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM
- 1008 Views
Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him.
18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM
- 947 Views
And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point?
18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM
- 775 Views
He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it...
18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM
- 780 Views
But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably.
18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM
- 835 Views
My point was...
18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM
- 996 Views
If Tuon had the strongest...
18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM
- 908 Views
Sera must be stronger...
18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM
- 905 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it...
18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM
- 950 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools
18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM
- 906 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for...
18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM
- 954 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list
19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM
- 963 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera!
19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM
- 828 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for...
18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM
- 1083 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM*
18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM
- 601 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done!
18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM
- 1047 Views
I have one problem with your list.
18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM
- 1012 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves...
18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM
- 868 Views
I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM*
18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM
- 560 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing.
18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM
- 956 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls.
18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM
- 1015 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully...
18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM
- 945 Views
Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM*
18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM
- 554 Views
Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM*
18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM
- 565 Views
I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM*
18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM
- 570 Views
I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM*
18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM
- 551 Views
Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC.
18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM
- 1018 Views
Where does she say this?
18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM
- 954 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien...
18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM
- 952 Views
Here are the quotes...
18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM
- 969 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument...
18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM
- 858 Views
I could say the same...
18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM
- 880 Views
So let me get this straight...
19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM
- 896 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too.
18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM
- 990 Views
Totally disagree...
18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM
- 1038 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal...
18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM
- 893 Views
Disagree...
18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM
- 1005 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though...
18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM
- 851 Views
About the top 6...
18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM
- 934 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they?
18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM
- 978 Views
That's ridiculous...
19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM
- 870 Views
Re: That's ridiculous...
19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM
- 907 Views
If Rahvin were stronger...
18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM
- 884 Views
Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM*
18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM
- 522 Views
But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM*
19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM
- 528 Views
Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM*
28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM
- 569 Views
Some more from Brandon...
19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM
- 907 Views
So we're back where we started?
19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM
- 710 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM
- 856 Views
we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength
10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM
- 915 Views
Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength
10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM
- 924 Views
winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost!
11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM
- 880 Views