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I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. Logain Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM
Is it possible Moghedien is stronger than we imagined, but because she is pretty much a coward, the other Forsaken dismiss her?

I agree with you. I think Moghedien is still the weakest Forsaken. But we could possibly move her up a level or two and still have her at the bottom of the Forsaken, especially if Graendal and Mesaana are on the same level. It could look like this:

Lanfear / Alivia / (unnamed character option 1)
Sharina / Talaan / Someryn (unnamed character option 2)
Semirhage / Nynaeve
Graendal / Mesaana
Cyndane / possibly Moghedien
Moghedien (alternatively goes here if we want a gap between her and Cyndane)

In my list above, I assume there is another character who we haven't met yet. The unnamed person either falls on the Lanfear / Alivia level or on the Sharina / Talaan / Someryn level. Also, Moghedien could be just one level below Graendal and Mesaana. Or Moghedien could be a couple of levels below Graendal and Mesaana. How do we know how far down to put Moghedien?
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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Shannow - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2179 Views
Sounds good Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1094 Views
Re: Sounds good Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1129 Views
Re: Someryn Logain - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1137 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1018 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1116 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... Shannow - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1030 Views
As I understand it... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1115 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1160 Views
Agreed. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 968 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 773 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list kcf - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1050 Views
Re: Sounds good kcf - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 966 Views
Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM 1091 Views
Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? kcf - 18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM 1190 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 962 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... kcf - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 989 Views
But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM 1028 Views
Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. kcf - 18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM 994 Views
That blows a heck of a lot of this theory out of the water... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:33:39 PM 1018 Views
it's possible, but I'd say unlikely kcf - 18/11/2009 07:34:32 PM 1047 Views
One problem... Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1161 Views
No... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1062 Views
That's not a problem. Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1010 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 910 Views
Sorry buddy Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1039 Views
Re: Sorry buddy rhiane - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 957 Views
Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question? Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM 1028 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1204 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1235 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. Logain - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1047 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 584 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 605 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1085 Views
As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM 602 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. Wotmaniac Reborn - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 754 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 622 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. Gher - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1039 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? beetnemesis - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 822 Views
Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM 1006 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Tedtheman - 18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM 916 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 967 Views
IMO... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1081 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 946 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1257 Views
That just doesn't make sense... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1075 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 609 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 910 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 809 Views
Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM 978 Views
All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM 983 Views
I don't think... Etzel - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1140 Views
Damane never recieve special status... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 945 Views
Good point... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 973 Views
Thing is... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1023 Views
Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him. Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM 967 Views
And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM 797 Views
He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM 802 Views
But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM 853 Views
My point was... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1016 Views
I agree *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 575 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 923 Views
Sera must be stronger... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 919 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 972 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 923 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 975 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 977 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 843 Views
You misunderstand me... Etzel - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 924 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 920 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM 1094 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 608 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 448 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" darius_sedai - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 805 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1061 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 826 Views
I have one problem with your list. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1023 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 881 Views
I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM 566 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 926 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. TaskmasterJack - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 968 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1029 Views
I think it goes like this: Logain - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 963 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. Logain - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1028 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 928 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 954 Views
Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM 558 Views
Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM 573 Views
I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM 577 Views
I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM 558 Views
Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM 1032 Views
She only says that Egwene is stronger and had been forced darius_sedai - 29/11/2009 01:54:56 AM 930 Views
Where does she say this? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 972 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 966 Views
Here are the quotes... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 987 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 878 Views
I could say the same... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 897 Views
So let me get this straight... Shannow - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 909 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 967 Views
Look at it this way... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 939 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 842 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. Logain - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1006 Views
Totally disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1054 Views
Re: Totally disagree... Logain - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 940 Views
Males likely go like this... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 909 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 908 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1019 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 867 Views
About the top 6... Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 952 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 997 Views
That's ridiculous... Shannow - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 889 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 926 Views
Well... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 926 Views
This is getting idiotic... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 923 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 918 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 900 Views
Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM 528 Views
But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM 535 Views
Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM* Logain - 28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM 571 Views
Disagreement Corwin - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1020 Views
Some more from Brandon... kcf - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 924 Views
So we're back where we started? fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 731 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? kcf - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1020 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. Shannow - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 879 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 962 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1027 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM 871 Views
we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM 926 Views
Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM 937 Views
winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM 894 Views
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