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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Shannow Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM
As per KCF's Q&A thread below, Sanderson says that Nynaeve is incredibly strong, and that only 6 women are above her on RJ's revised strength list.

Sanderson says that Cyndane is severely weakened in the Power. (He clarified this at the Pasadena signing, to rectify his earlier mistake, where KCF quoted him as saying Cyndane was a very, very weak channeler. Apparently what he meant is, she is much WEAKENED, but still strong).

Sanderson says that he is "pretty sure" that Nynaeve is stronger than Semirhage, but not 100% certain. He stressed that Nynaeve and Semirhage are very close to one another in strength.

Sanderson also says that Mesaana is definitely weaker than Nynaeve, and that she is not particularly strong for a female Forsaken.

The above quotes are incredible. For the first time they allow us to put together a definitive strength list of the female Forsaken.

First we have Lanfear, the strongest woman ever.

Next, I will use Nynaeve as a benchmark, as she is the common denominator Sanderson used to compare the female Forsaken to one another.

Sanderson is not 100% sure if Semirhage is weaker than Nynaeve, but he implies strongly that Cyndane is not one of the 6 females above Nynaeve. He stresses that she is MUCH weaker than before.

That makes it pretty clear that Semirhage is the second strongest female Forsaken!

We also know that Graendal HAS to fall even lower than Cyndane, as she acknowledges herself that Cyndane is stronger than her.

Sanderson's dismissive reference to Mesaana makes it likely that she comes next, with Moghedien obviously bringing up the rear.

So the female Forsaken strength list, HAS to look as follows:

Lanfear
Semirhage
Cyndane
Graendal
Mesaana
Moghedien

It could be argued that Mesaana and Graendal might fall on the same level, and that Cyndane could conceivably be on the same level as Semirhage, but Sanderson's certainty that Cyndane is below Nynaeve, while not being that sure of Semirhage's position seems to argue against that.

Wow. After YEARS of debate, it seems we have the answer to the big strength question. For the females at least.

And incidentally, it seems as if Nynaeve is either stronger than all the female Forsaken except Lanfear, or at worst, she is exceeded only by Lanfear and Semirhage.

I think that Sanderson could not remember who was the stronger of Nynaeve and Semirhage, because they are probably on the same level of RJ's strength list. And therefore, without looking at more in depth notes to get a definitive answer, he most likely gave the benefit of the doubt to Nynaeve.

That's why he said he was "pretty sure" she was the stronger, but not certain. And that's probably why he stressed that they are very close in strength.

Anyway this is mindblowing stuff for me. Information I've been waiting for since I first read FoH, when we had the first Forsaken scene involving Rahvin, Graendal, Lanfear and Sammael.

So what do you all think?

This message last edited by Shannow on 18/11/2009 at 08:51:06 PM
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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2180 Views
Sounds good - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1094 Views
Re: Sounds good - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1130 Views
Re: Someryn - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1137 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1019 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1117 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1030 Views
As I understand it... - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1116 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1161 Views
Agreed. - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 968 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 774 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1050 Views
Re: Sounds good - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 967 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 962 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 989 Views
One problem... - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1162 Views
No... - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1062 Views
That's not a problem. - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1011 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 911 Views
Sorry buddy - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1040 Views
Re: Sorry buddy - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 957 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1204 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1236 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1047 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 585 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 606 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1086 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 755 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 623 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1040 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 823 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 967 Views
IMO... - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1082 Views
I don't know... - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 947 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1258 Views
That just doesn't make sense... - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1075 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 610 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 911 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 810 Views
I don't think... - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1141 Views
Damane never recieve special status... - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 945 Views
Good point... - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 974 Views
Thing is... - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1024 Views
My point was... - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1017 Views
I agree *NM* - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 576 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 923 Views
Sera must be stronger... - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 920 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 973 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 923 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 976 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 978 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 844 Views
You misunderstand me... - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 925 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 921 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 609 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 448 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 805 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1061 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 827 Views
I have one problem with your list. - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1024 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 882 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 926 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 969 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1030 Views
I think it goes like this: - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 964 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1028 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 929 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 955 Views
Where does she say this? - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 972 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 967 Views
Here are the quotes... - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 988 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 878 Views
I could say the same... - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 898 Views
So let me get this straight... - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 909 Views
No... - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 968 Views
Look at it this way... - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 940 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 843 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1007 Views
Totally disagree... - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1054 Views
Re: Totally disagree... - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 940 Views
Males likely go like this... - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 910 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 909 Views
Disagree... - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1019 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 868 Views
About the top 6... - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 953 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 998 Views
That's ridiculous... - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 890 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 927 Views
Well... - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 927 Views
This is getting idiotic... - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 924 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 919 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 901 Views
Disagreement - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1020 Views
Some more from Brandon... - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 925 Views
So we're back where we started? - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 732 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1020 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 880 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 962 Views
Thoughts - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1027 Views

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