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Well... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 17/11/2009 06:51:01 AM


The first time we know Mesaana is in the Tower is in Lord of Chaos chapter 6. We have a Graendal POV that at a meeting Mesaana was mad Semirhage missed a meeting and in Mesaana's anger let it slip she was in the Tower.

Which meant she was there for some time. It stretches credibility that Mesaana entered the Tower, and a week or so later, let slip hr new, top secret position.
But the Black Tower itself did not exist in the beginning of LoC. That is when Rand found Taim, and led him to the farm. The Black Tower as a name was not known to the Tower till aCoS. It is in the prologue of aCoS that Elaida thinks to send an expedition to the BT. She talks of recalling Tsutama, Lirene and Toviene.

The way this has been placed and the way Elaida talks of it, I highly doubt Tsutama entered the Tower before Mesaana's slip.

And in that PoV, she makes it clear that bringing these women back was entirely her idea. If Alviarin was involved in that, wouldn't her immediately following PoV, where she thinks the BT expedition is crazy, indicate that she was frustrated that a woman she helped bring back, Toviene, is now to lead an expedition she disapproves of?
My timeline still works. Mesaana uses Alviarin and the Black Ajah to bring down Siuan, and split the tower. Elaida brings back Toveine and Tsutsama/Mesaana.

But that still doesn't answer my question. If Mesaana could manage such a big operation like deposing Siuan while not in the Tower, why did she need to enter it thereafter? And if she was there, why did she change who she was later?

You are right Mesaana could be some obscure sister. However, that doesn't prove Mesaana couldn't be Tsutsama. As a powerful Ajah Head and with the divided Tower Tsutsama could avoid or divert any conversation that might tip off another Aes Sedai there might be something wrong with Tsutsama. With suspicions running deep in the Tower a sister might believe that any inconsitency with Tsutsama's behavior might be due to the divisions of the Tower

This wasn't my argument to prove Mesaana wasn't Tsutama, merely that obscure sisters are not out of the question, as you said in your initial post.
And no amount of division in the Tower can explain factual errors. And no way would torturing Tsutama have revealed all the details. Playing Tsutama, coming in contact with all those Red Sisters and Sitters, is a majorly risky game. Character changes are acceptable, but screwing up facts? Especially with a woman like Pevara, who'd have immediately found out if there was any inconsistency in Tsutama's statement? No...
If Mesaana is one of those sisters who has few friends, no friends, and lives is some isolated corner of the Brown Ajah; she has no power base now. The Black Ajah is gone and it would be very difficult to influence events in the Tower as an obscure Brown tucked away in a corner.

But she could have hardly known it will come to this when she took on a disguise! She didn't enter the Tower expecting to fail.


I guess it is how you look at it. You are right if Tsutsama/Mesaana had sent 3 new Sitters to the Hall to vote against Egwene it could ensure Egwene's reign would be filled with trouble from the Reds. In that event at least the Red's would have had a vote.

If the Red Sitters don't vote the same result could occur. Tsutsama/Mesaana can say to the Red Ajah that Egwene's election was flawed. The Reds are the only Ajah not to get a voice in the selection of the Amrylin. I could see that building up resentment in the Red Ajah.

I also don't see Mesaana wanting to draw attention to herself at this time. With the mood of the Tower right now and the means to prove whether you are or are not a Darkfriend I would expect Mesaana to very much stay in character.

Nope. Given that her position might be shortly revealed, it makes every bit of sense for Mesaana to create as much chaos as possible before Egwene gains the stole and can ask everyone to swear on the Oath Rod.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. One thing I love about WOT is the number of interpretations to events people can have. I have probably read hundreds of posts on Verin. Was she Black Ajah, Purple/pink Ajah, or Brown Ajah. Did she follow the Light. It turned out she was Black, Brown and followed the Light. RJ/BS will have the final say and we will find out in the next book or two.

Yeah I love that too.
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Mesaana is .... - 17/11/2009 12:50:49 AM 2115 Views
I like it. - 17/11/2009 01:22:25 AM 821 Views
Re: I like it. - 17/11/2009 01:32:12 AM 881 Views
So Tsutama got rid of the people she couldn't use? - 17/11/2009 02:37:40 AM 853 Views
Re: I like it. - 17/11/2009 02:51:54 AM 761 Views
bronze scrollwork *NM* - 17/11/2009 06:26:38 PM 399 Views
Solid theory. But there are some problems... - 17/11/2009 03:09:39 AM 807 Views
Re: Solid theory. But there are some problems... - 17/11/2009 04:41:57 AM 839 Views
Re: Solid theory. But there are some problems... - 17/11/2009 05:29:58 AM 948 Views
Re: Solid theory. But there are some problems... - 17/11/2009 06:28:29 AM 793 Views
Problem: Language - 17/11/2009 06:39:05 AM 618 Views
Well... - 17/11/2009 06:51:01 AM 717 Views
Mesaana has been in the WT for quite some time - 17/11/2009 06:35:39 AM 729 Views
Double post. ignore. *NM* - 17/11/2009 06:36:05 AM 376 Views
Agreed with those above - I like it. - 17/11/2009 03:27:53 AM 699 Views
Intriguing. Very well thought out. *NM* - 17/11/2009 05:22:51 AM 351 Views
Does anyone remember the girl who was being punished on a farm who was killed w. OP? - 17/11/2009 05:25:06 AM 747 Views
Sahra Covenry - 17/11/2009 05:36:04 AM 793 Views
Yes, we never really got an explanation for that. - 17/11/2009 07:07:04 AM 748 Views
Mesaana? Blue? Tower basement? Are you sure you don't mix up something? *NM* - 17/11/2009 10:49:20 AM 355 Views
No. she tortured a blue Aes sedai in the basements of the white Tower. *NM* - 17/11/2009 07:21:44 PM 401 Views
Pretty sure that was Semirhage *NM* - 17/11/2009 08:02:00 PM 384 Views
That was Semirhage, and it wasn't the Tower's basement. *NM* - 17/11/2009 08:37:50 PM 357 Views
That was Semirhage, and it wasn't the Tower's basement. *NM* - 17/11/2009 08:37:50 PM 359 Views
Maybe Mesaana is playing Sahra? - 17/11/2009 12:07:07 PM 684 Views
I think we had a POV from Sahra as she was killed. - 18/11/2009 10:39:25 PM 704 Views
right and wrong - 09/12/2009 05:02:39 AM 634 Views
And I always suspected it was Mesaana - 09/12/2009 07:14:19 AM 671 Views
well Sheriam would have been on that short list - 16/12/2009 07:23:32 PM 684 Views
I don't think so - 17/11/2009 06:10:48 AM 631 Views
Possibly - or maybe Silviana? - 17/11/2009 06:12:41 AM 717 Views
Re: Possibly - or maybe Silviana? - 17/11/2009 06:47:02 AM 703 Views
Not all Forsaken love to cause pain. - 17/11/2009 03:48:19 PM 691 Views
Re: Possibly - or maybe Silviana? - 17/11/2009 05:16:55 PM 670 Views
I can see more towards Evanellein... - 17/11/2009 10:48:09 AM 795 Views
Re: I can see more towards Evanellein... - 17/11/2009 06:18:42 PM 690 Views
I don't think so, because of: - 17/11/2009 11:31:22 AM 711 Views
Good point! *NM* - 17/11/2009 11:33:17 AM 468 Views
If I'm not mistaken, at that time Tsutama was still just a Sitter, not head of the Red Ajah - 17/11/2009 02:36:52 PM 624 Views
An excellent point - 17/11/2009 03:42:22 PM 708 Views
Re: I don't think so, because of: - 17/11/2009 06:15:23 PM 773 Views
Ignore Double Post - 17/11/2009 06:16:11 PM 645 Views
As others said... - 17/11/2009 03:39:55 PM 685 Views
The main problem, IMHO, is that Mesaana doesn't like extravagance. - 17/11/2009 08:02:49 PM 714 Views
Your reasoning is good... - 18/11/2009 03:58:22 PM 715 Views
Maria confirmed at Twitter... - 18/11/2009 04:46:06 PM 848 Views
Thanks for clearing that up. - 18/11/2009 10:04:13 PM 669 Views
Doesn't that drop an additional clue about her identity? - 18/11/2009 10:19:20 PM 724 Views
Wait... Maria confirmed this on Twitter... - 09/12/2009 09:04:18 PM 588 Views

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