RJ says that it is possible to interfere with the creation of a gateway, and in turn, to interfere with the interference.
But since blocking a gateway from opening is obviously a very rare skill, it is clear that it is not as easy to achieve as making a gateway.
Most medium strength channelers can open a gateway. Logain was able to weave six gateways instantaneously, just like Lews Therin.
So why would one try to counter the interference in a gateway opening and struggle to keep it open, if you could just as easily spin 6 more gateways while the defender is trying to close your first one?
You say why only have 1 channeler defending, why not 500? Well, because at the end it is about the ratio between the attackers and the defenders.
If you have 500 guys defending, you will have 500 guys attacking. So for simplicity's sake, lets look at the one on one principle of the matter, before we extrapolate it 500 times.
If you have to interfere with an opening gateway one gateway at a time, then the defender is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage, because the attacker can spin multiple gateways faster than the defender can counter them.
So all the attacker needs, is an army of 100 000 warriors waiting on his Traveling ground. And then he starts spinning gateways six at at time, all opening inside the defender's city.
So now the defender notices the first gateway opening, and immediately tries to counter it. But while he is countering the one, 5 more are open for troops to charge through at a gallop.
Then, as he moves on to the 2nd one, 6 more gateways are opened by the attacker.
For each gateway that the defender tries to block individually, the attacker has time to open another 6.
From the attacking army's point of view, it makes little difference. They simply see a series of 6 gateways opening in front of their front rank in an endless sequence, and they simply charge through continuously.
Every now and then, one of the gateways winks out, as the defender succeeds in closing it. But the attackers simply aim for the numerous gateways that remain open, and are continuing to open 6 at a time, without pause.
Why should the attacker waste time trying to counter the defending channeler's interference in the odd gateway, if he can simply spin new ones faster than they can be identified, targeted and blocked?
No, for the defender to have any hope of success, he has to be able to ward a specific area from gateways. Then, when he and the attacking channeler engage one another, the battle is not about targeting individual gateways - which the defender can never hope to do fast enough - but rather, it is about penetrating the ward that prevents ALL gateways from accessing that particular area.
And this battle can go back and forth, as the ward may be penetrated briefly, allowing a gateway to open for a brief period, before the defender reweaves the ward, cutting off ALL gateways to the area, and thus stranding whatever troops might have gotten through in the window period when the ward was down.
Then those attacking troops will be isolated, and have to hold out long enough for the attacking channeler to penetrate the ward once again, and send reinforcements through new gateways.
Thus, the battle sways backwards and forwards, as the channelers seek to outwit one another.
Defending against one gateway at a time is implausible, given the above example.
But since blocking a gateway from opening is obviously a very rare skill, it is clear that it is not as easy to achieve as making a gateway.
Most medium strength channelers can open a gateway. Logain was able to weave six gateways instantaneously, just like Lews Therin.
So why would one try to counter the interference in a gateway opening and struggle to keep it open, if you could just as easily spin 6 more gateways while the defender is trying to close your first one?
You say why only have 1 channeler defending, why not 500? Well, because at the end it is about the ratio between the attackers and the defenders.
If you have 500 guys defending, you will have 500 guys attacking. So for simplicity's sake, lets look at the one on one principle of the matter, before we extrapolate it 500 times.
If you have to interfere with an opening gateway one gateway at a time, then the defender is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage, because the attacker can spin multiple gateways faster than the defender can counter them.
So all the attacker needs, is an army of 100 000 warriors waiting on his Traveling ground. And then he starts spinning gateways six at at time, all opening inside the defender's city.
So now the defender notices the first gateway opening, and immediately tries to counter it. But while he is countering the one, 5 more are open for troops to charge through at a gallop.
Then, as he moves on to the 2nd one, 6 more gateways are opened by the attacker.
For each gateway that the defender tries to block individually, the attacker has time to open another 6.
From the attacking army's point of view, it makes little difference. They simply see a series of 6 gateways opening in front of their front rank in an endless sequence, and they simply charge through continuously.
Every now and then, one of the gateways winks out, as the defender succeeds in closing it. But the attackers simply aim for the numerous gateways that remain open, and are continuing to open 6 at a time, without pause.
Why should the attacker waste time trying to counter the defending channeler's interference in the odd gateway, if he can simply spin new ones faster than they can be identified, targeted and blocked?
No, for the defender to have any hope of success, he has to be able to ward a specific area from gateways. Then, when he and the attacking channeler engage one another, the battle is not about targeting individual gateways - which the defender can never hope to do fast enough - but rather, it is about penetrating the ward that prevents ALL gateways from accessing that particular area.
And this battle can go back and forth, as the ward may be penetrated briefly, allowing a gateway to open for a brief period, before the defender reweaves the ward, cutting off ALL gateways to the area, and thus stranding whatever troops might have gotten through in the window period when the ward was down.
Then those attacking troops will be isolated, and have to hold out long enough for the attacking channeler to penetrate the ward once again, and send reinforcements through new gateways.
Thus, the battle sways backwards and forwards, as the channelers seek to outwit one another.
Defending against one gateway at a time is implausible, given the above example.
But you can't just include one channeler as an example because RJ said that it occurs on many levels. Therefore there are channelers on both sides trying to prevent interference at different levels.
Besides, you've once again used Lews Therin as your example of channeling, and even if it came down to fireballs, he'd be the most difficult channeler to counter. You're also using horrendously flawed examples - he couldn't open six gateways and carry on opening six all the time until there were dozens open. He needs to maintain them, you know, and Rand can only hold about ten flows. If he ties them off, even the most basic channeler can unravel the knot and let it close.
Perrin's own Ash'aman show how difficult it is to displace large populations in TGS - they complain that there are limits for them. I totally disagree with you that the defender is at a disadvantage. I think the attacker has a much bigger problem. The area they are entering is foreign territory that is waiting for them. There would be wards and traps that destroy anyone who cross a threshold. There could be channelers waiting to target a gateway with everything they've got - lightning, fireballs, earthquakes. I would hate to be a horseman galloping through these gateways onto such a field.
Flinn would be a better example. Say he opens a gateway that allow two horsemen at a time to enter the battlefield. At the same time, enemy channelers are trying to disrupt his weave and he's trying to hold it. Meanwhile fireballs and lightning are also entering through the gateway, and his own personal safety is at risk, and he can do nothing about it. At the same time, a gateway spins next to his as an enemy channeler is trying to send his own men as reinforcements but all of Flinn's strength is going into his large gateway. That is why an example must have many channelers. Flinn will have Corele who's trying to protect him from fireballs, or she's slicing the weaves that are trying to slice Damer's. Or she decides to go for the newly forming gateway. It happens on many levels. I don't see how you can keep this sort of battle clean.
A warding against Travelling would make the place like Far Madding in some ways. No one could enter but you can't leave either - which cuts out your reconnaisance and counter-attacks with gateways. It would be more of a limiting factor than an advantage.
I think gateway blocking is much like Moghedien and Nynaeve's fights with shields. You see the threat coming and weave a counter weave before it can strike you. Then you have your friends behind you either causing mayhem, or trying to aid you.
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So what was the point of a certain member of the Forsaken?
13/11/2009 12:04:20 PM
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I was disapointed too and needless to say, shocked. *NM*
14/11/2009 09:31:45 AM
- 278 Views
I was initially...
15/11/2009 02:03:14 AM
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Here's what I would have done...
15/11/2009 02:45:32 PM
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Rand is not Dumbledore
15/11/2009 03:10:58 PM
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Sorry, haven't read any Harry Potter books, so I have no clue what you're referring to.
15/11/2009 03:13:32 PM
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Gateway blocking sphere?
15/11/2009 03:28:09 PM
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We don't actually know that...
15/11/2009 04:05:10 PM
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Re: We don't actually know that...
15/11/2009 06:02:28 PM
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From Question of the week 14
15/11/2009 07:34:19 PM
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Disagree
15/11/2009 08:14:28 PM
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What if he makes multiple gateways at the same time?
15/11/2009 08:21:48 PM
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But RJ answered this
15/11/2009 09:47:57 PM
- 603 Views
The issue is that it is easier to make a gateway than to block one - individually.
15/11/2009 10:04:22 PM
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I don't think so
16/11/2009 07:12:05 AM
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I agree with Sidious...
15/11/2009 04:12:04 PM
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The quote exists. I'll get it for you and post it in a couple of hours. Gotta go to church now.
15/11/2009 04:13:35 PM
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Here's the way he should have done it...
15/11/2009 06:19:18 PM
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I don't think I would put too much faith in that....
15/11/2009 09:32:22 PM
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Moghedien and Cyndane didn't attack Graendal, in fact...
15/11/2009 09:36:03 PM
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That wasn't what I said....
16/11/2009 12:42:53 AM
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