The issue is that it is easier to make a gateway than to block one - individually.
Shannow Send a noteboard - 15/11/2009 10:04:22 PM
Making a gateway is a nearly instantaneous process. Plus we've seen Lews Therin make up to six gateways at a time.
But Rand is the most powerful channeler in the world. How can you use him as a standard for gateways in battle? Most channelers can even Travel.
Over the span of a minute, he could probably make 36 gateways into a particular area - say 5 miles by 5 miles square.
And what good would this do? What does it help for Rand to hold a gateway open for five seconds? He could let a bunch of men through, all of whom would instantly be met by enemy soldiers, shadowspawn or channelers. Even Rand's biggest gateway has serious limitations for reinforcements. RJ's own answer implied that circles have limits too when helping their armies.
If disrupting a gateway is a difficult art - as RJ seems to indicate, how is a single defender going to move around fast enough to block 36 gateways opening all over the area being defended?
Why would there be a single defender? It's much more chaotic than you portray. There could be 500 channelers on both sides, each trying to weave gateways to a location to send more troops. As the gateway opens you have rival channelers sending destructive weaves through the opening, and other enemies trying to unravel your gateway or block it. Then you have your people trying to prevent all of this. It's mayhem. It's not unlikely that a man like Rand could open six gateways and hold them open, with five being decoys and only one being used. It's a whole different war game when it comes to channeling.
In fact, if he has to see what he's doing, he would probably have to Travel himself to get to gateways that are forming more than a few hundred yards from his current location.
Probably.
If an attacker spins 6 gateways simultaneously, to open at intervals of 1 mile from one another, I find it difficult to see how his opponent is going to block all of them. Especially if blocking a gateway is difficult to achieve, and requires a heck of a lot of concentration.
Why? What happens if there are hundreds of channelers like one would expect in the War of Power? Besides, most of it is trying to stop reinforcements from coming through those gateways, not actually stopping the spinning. There are only three known channelers who can do that, and I doubt they were present at every battle.
The only way I can see it working, is if some kind of defensive ward can be placed over an area, blocking it from the Pattern. And that this ward can then be attacked or penetrated by an opponent, if he is skilled enough. In turn, the defender can bolster the ward and repel the attempts to penetrate it by the attacker, if HE is skilled enough.
Even a simple warding can take days to unravel, according to Moghedien. Even if Demandred could do such a thing, he doesn't have the strength necessary to make a substantial difference. Rand needed an angreal to ward the Aiel encampment. So if Demandred could also ward a mile in every direction, it would not help him if Lews Therin could make gateways just outside that area.
Thus, the battle is taking place at many levels, as RJ indicated.
I think the battle has to do with forming many gateways, holding them, blocking them, preventing blocking, and destroying reinforcements. You could have people countering each other's weaves on both sides until you have a dozen people countering each other's counterattacks. It would be a messy thing.
RJ says that it is possible to interfere with the creation of a gateway, and in turn, to interfere with the interference.
But since blocking a gateway from opening is obviously a very rare skill, it is clear that it is not as easy to achieve as making a gateway.
Most medium strength channelers can open a gateway. Logain was able to weave six gateways instantaneously, just like Lews Therin.
So why would one try to counter the interference in a gateway opening and struggle to keep it open, if you could just as easily spin 6 more gateways while the defender is trying to close your first one?
You say why only have 1 channeler defending, why not 500? Well, because at the end it is about the ratio between the attackers and the defenders.
If you have 500 guys defending, you will have 500 guys attacking. So for simplicity's sake, lets look at the one on one principle of the matter, before we extrapolate it 500 times.
If you have to interfere with an opening gateway one gateway at a time, then the defender is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage, because the attacker can spin multiple gateways faster than the defender can counter them.
So all the attacker needs, is an army of 100 000 warriors waiting on his Traveling ground. And then he starts spinning gateways six at at time, all opening inside the defender's city.
So now the defender notices the first gateway opening, and immediately tries to counter it. But while he is countering the one, 5 more are open for troops to charge through at a gallop.
Then, as he moves on to the 2nd one, 6 more gateways are opened by the attacker.
For each gateway that the defender tries to block individually, the attacker has time to open another 6.
From the attacking army's point of view, it makes little difference. They simply see a series of 6 gateways opening in front of their front rank in an endless sequence, and they simply charge through continuously.
Every now and then, one of the gateways winks out, as the defender succeeds in closing it. But the attackers simply aim for the numerous gateways that remain open, and are continuing to open 6 at a time, without pause.
Why should the attacker waste time trying to counter the defending channeler's interference in the odd gateway, if he can simply spin new ones faster than they can be identified, targeted and blocked?
No, for the defender to have any hope of success, he has to be able to ward a specific area from gateways. Then, when he and the attacking channeler engage one another, the battle is not about targeting individual gateways - which the defender can never hope to do fast enough - but rather, it is about penetrating the ward that prevents ALL gateways from accessing that particular area.
And this battle can go back and forth, as the ward may be penetrated briefly, allowing a gateway to open for a brief period, before the defender reweaves the ward, cutting off ALL gateways to the area, and thus stranding whatever troops might have gotten through in the window period when the ward was down.
Then those attacking troops will be isolated, and have to hold out long enough for the attacking channeler to penetrate the ward once again, and send reinforcements through new gateways.
Thus, the battle sways backwards and forwards, as the channelers seek to outwit one another.
Defending against one gateway at a time is implausible, given the above example.
So what was the point of a certain member of the Forsaken?
13/11/2009 12:04:20 PM
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I was disapointed too and needless to say, shocked. *NM*
14/11/2009 09:31:45 AM
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I was initially...
15/11/2009 02:03:14 AM
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Here's what I would have done...
15/11/2009 02:45:32 PM
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Rand is not Dumbledore
15/11/2009 03:10:58 PM
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Sorry, haven't read any Harry Potter books, so I have no clue what you're referring to.
15/11/2009 03:13:32 PM
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Gateway blocking sphere?
15/11/2009 03:28:09 PM
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We don't actually know that...
15/11/2009 04:05:10 PM
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Re: We don't actually know that...
15/11/2009 06:02:28 PM
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From Question of the week 14
15/11/2009 07:34:19 PM
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Disagree
15/11/2009 08:14:28 PM
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What if he makes multiple gateways at the same time?
15/11/2009 08:21:48 PM
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But RJ answered this
15/11/2009 09:47:57 PM
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The issue is that it is easier to make a gateway than to block one - individually.
15/11/2009 10:04:22 PM
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I agree with Sidious...
15/11/2009 04:12:04 PM
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The quote exists. I'll get it for you and post it in a couple of hours. Gotta go to church now.
15/11/2009 04:13:35 PM
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Here's the way he should have done it...
15/11/2009 06:19:18 PM
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I don't think I would put too much faith in that....
15/11/2009 09:32:22 PM
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Moghedien and Cyndane didn't attack Graendal, in fact...
15/11/2009 09:36:03 PM
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That wasn't what I said....
16/11/2009 12:42:53 AM
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