Re: Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question)
randfandom Send a noteboard - 13/11/2009 08:16:29 PM
Everyone here has noted Rand's mass atrocity. Rand most likely killed dozens of Graendal's innocent pawns of Graendal when he balefired her palace. Rand did this to get rid of a necessary evil, and the people he killed were beyond saving anyway.
IMO, the only really bad thing Rand did was by burning them out of the pattern. Those people he killed will never have a chance to live again.
IMO, the only really bad thing Rand did was by burning them out of the pattern. Those people he killed will never have a chance to live again.
Actually RJ said that people killed by balefire do get reborn. Their souls are not taken out of the recycling bin. Balefire wipes out their last actions (in this case going back maybe an hour) and prevents the Dark One grabbing the soul at the point of death.
Since the people there had been reprogrammed by Graendel, Rand probably did them all a favor. They'll have a chance to be reborn free and not used as puppets.
However, Rand's action was a-moral. He knew that Ramshallan(?) was compelled by Graedel, but not whether or not she was still there. He killed these people without absolute positive proof that Graedel was there at the time of the strike. Luckily she was, but it could just as easily have been the other way.
It's a little like when we fight Al Qaida, the army bombs a civilian lodging because it has evidence that Bin Laden might be there. You don't know until after whether you murdered innocents for nothing or whether that action is justified even if you could prove the terrorists are there.
As for Egwene, she was perfectly justified, especially given her own experience as a damane, to do what she did, although I think she violated her vow that she follows the Three Oaths "in her heart" - for all she knew, the Seanchan came to collar, not kill, so by the Three Oaths she should not have used killing force.
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Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question)
13/11/2009 06:22:50 PM
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Given the chance, Egwene would certainly have chosen death herself had she been captured
13/11/2009 07:04:02 PM
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That doesn't make her right, it makes her a coward *NM*
13/11/2009 11:53:50 PM
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Your hatred and judgment of Egwene is obsessive and at times unreasonable. Like right now. *NM*
14/11/2009 03:56:34 AM
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In this he his reasonable...I think he is mostly wrong with the statement, but it is reasonable *NM*
14/11/2009 04:08:35 AM
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Wrong and unreasonable.
14/11/2009 11:07:16 PM
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It's not herself she's sacrificing *NM*
15/11/2009 06:09:02 AM
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"Given the chance, Egwene would certainly have chosen death herself had she been captured"
15/11/2009 02:45:21 PM
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Re: "Given the chance, Egwene would certainly have chosen death herself had she been captured"
15/11/2009 03:14:27 PM
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Because most people often get acclimated to being beaten 3 or more times a day.
17/11/2009 01:02:37 AM
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When teenagers were physically punished in schools
18/11/2009 05:52:54 AM
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Teenagers at school didn't spend hours a day getting spanked. Repeatedly. For weeks straight.
20/11/2009 02:13:38 AM
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Egwene also killed Aes Sedai who belonged to the shadow by the dozens
13/11/2009 07:19:14 PM
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Re: Egwene also killed Aes Sedai who belonged to the shadow by the dozens
13/11/2009 07:25:14 PM
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Forcible turning is not the only method
13/11/2009 08:28:08 PM
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But...
13/11/2009 08:43:53 PM
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The point is
13/11/2009 11:00:58 PM
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They were tried. *NM*
14/11/2009 12:23:45 AM
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Mock trials
14/11/2009 08:06:14 AM
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Proof?
14/11/2009 09:09:14 AM
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And if Verin had been caught, she would have deserved death.
13/11/2009 11:55:13 PM
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Except for the fact that she never served the Dark One. She was Black Ajah in name only.
21/11/2009 04:16:48 PM
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They had trials. No mention of them presenting such evidence. *NM*
13/11/2009 11:54:23 PM
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How was she going to protect the Tower and occupants then?
13/11/2009 08:02:31 PM
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There is a difference between collateral damage and targeting your own people! *NM*
13/11/2009 11:56:10 PM
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She did not target her own people...
14/11/2009 12:39:14 AM
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You seem to be contradicting yourself here
14/11/2009 07:52:07 AM
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Because they were indistinct specks high in the sky? *NM*
14/11/2009 09:11:15 AM
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Considering the power she had in her hands
14/11/2009 09:52:10 AM
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typical cannoli double speak, she wasn't targeting her own people
14/11/2009 01:46:10 AM
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Nothing wrong with that.
14/11/2009 08:11:15 AM
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Re: Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question)
13/11/2009 08:16:29 PM
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Neither is an atrocity...
13/11/2009 08:17:08 PM
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Re: Neither is an atrocity...
13/11/2009 08:59:30 PM
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Bull Sh!t!
13/11/2009 09:08:00 PM
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Come on now...
13/11/2009 09:13:50 PM
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Not outraged on their behalf...
13/11/2009 09:26:11 PM
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Re: Not outraged on their behalf...
13/11/2009 09:56:01 PM
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Re: Not outraged on their behalf...
13/11/2009 10:08:06 PM
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Yes your argument is very much Bull Sh!t
13/11/2009 09:15:17 PM
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So...
13/11/2009 09:27:11 PM
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Re: So...
13/11/2009 10:07:15 PM
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Not at all...
13/11/2009 10:09:43 PM
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Re: Not at all...
13/11/2009 10:54:14 PM
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Rand.
13/11/2009 09:17:14 PM
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But that is not her choice to make. She has NO right to decide that for anyone. *NM*
13/11/2009 11:57:03 PM
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Yes, it was her choice to make, and she is now responsible for the consequences.
16/11/2009 06:24:46 PM
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Since Rand did not perform any atrocities, Egwene by default (Existing)
13/11/2009 11:53:22 PM
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