Nice post. And I acknowledge that you're entitled to your opinion.
Shannow Send a noteboard - 13/11/2009 05:14:41 PM
What it comes down to is that heroes that are a mixture of light and dark are far more exciting and entertaining than some pious saint, who is kind hearted, good natured, biddable, considerate and totally objective in all his actions.
That kind of guy would actually be rather scary. You like citing aSoI&F, who is a more frightening enemy, stipulating equal power? Tywin Lannister, who is always open to a deal? Or Stannis Baratheon who, if he thinks you're wrong, will never cut a deal. Which of the two actually said he was afraid of the other and rebuked his followers for writing the other one off as a lost cause? And which one is dead and has his successors tearing apart all he built, and which one survives and still even has an outside chance at the throne? Whatever you want to believe, SoI&F is a highly moralistic series that subtly illustrates the futility of compromising with evil. Ned Stark was not brought low because he is too kindly and trusting, he was brought low because he failed to do his duty, and he betrayed his king and his friend. If he HAD been a saint, Cersei would already be dead, and Robert might still rule, because Ned would never have given her the chance to flee and would not have gone so easy on his daughters. He would not have relied on Littlefinger's bribery, giving the man a chance to betray him. You know very little of what being all the way good really entails if you can make such a statement.
Why do you think characters like Wolverine, Anomander Rake, the Batman from Dark Knight, etc. etc. are so popular?
Shallow vapid fans who prefer escapist entertainment are attracted to the superficial "cool" of these characters? What does Wolverine REALLY do that's so dark anyway? He acts like an animal sometimes? He drinks beer and rides a motorcycle? Killing people does not make you dark, unless you do it for bad reasons, in which case you are evil. No ifs, ands or buts. When confronted with evil that will cost innocent lives, the responsibility of the hero is to kill, no matter what that pudgy Japanese retard on Heroes might say. Killing someone when it is necessary and right is not a "dark" act, it is a righteous one, which a "saint" would willingly embrace. No one likes Scott Summers. Everyone likes Wolverine.
Scott Summers is not a saint. He might be a kiss-ass, but he's also a tool. What kind of saint abandons his wife and kid because they found his old girlfriend is still alive? What kind of saint marries that old girlfriend, after the writers conveniently dispose of his troublesome family burden, only to cheat on her with a skanky ex-villianess? Obi Wan is boring. Anakin is exciting.
Congratulations. You are the first Star Wars fan I have EVERY encountered who does not dislike Anakin and consider him to be a whiny D-bag. I don't know where you get off calling the guy who accomplished the most and had an actual sense of humor (lame as Lucas's writing rendered it) boring. A hero that stands on the border between good and evil, and has to fight temptation is more enjoyable to read about than Baelor the Blessed.
Who, IIRC, seems to have spent most of his life fighting temptation. And seems to have had his fair share of ballsiness if you read the facts known about him, instead of the insincere slimeballs who use his name as a gesture of mockery to make themselves feel better about their moral shortcomings. Baelor walked into a pit of vipers to rescue his cousin, a famous warrior. Who's the REAL badass? A D-bag famous for doing his married sister or the guy who shrugged off poisonous snakes to rescue the first guy? However, the idea that I read a book to get some moral lesson out of it is absurd. I read a book for entertainment. Stannis Baratheon is boring as hell. Tywin Lannister is far more entertaining.
In a nutshell, why do I read a book or watch a movie? For emotional gratification.
And it gives me more emotional gratification when William Munney blows away Little Bill at the end of Unforgiven, than when Rand shows admirable self control after gettting slapped in the face by an old bag with cheap jewelry in her hair.
Rand and Roose Bolton...
13/11/2009 02:02:11 PM
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That is probably due to you having fought so many wars in Video Games, but not real ones.
13/11/2009 02:20:42 PM
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I loved Dark Rand. I agree, I wish he was around longer. Should've come out earlier in the series.
13/11/2009 03:23:59 PM
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You people are mad
13/11/2009 04:01:27 PM
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Reading about a saint is boring. Reading about an imperfect hero is exciting.
13/11/2009 04:38:24 PM
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That's actually kind of shallow and limited
13/11/2009 05:07:55 PM
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Nice post. And I acknowledge that you're entitled to your opinion.
13/11/2009 05:14:41 PM
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I don't read for morality either, but IMO, it makes a better story because it is tougher
14/11/2009 12:08:14 AM
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This wasn't Sanderson's portrayal!
13/11/2009 05:52:51 PM
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Good post.
13/11/2009 06:37:37 PM
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Re: Good post.
13/11/2009 06:51:49 PM
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You're right. But I'm very angry with the writers for portraying Egwene in such a positive way.
13/11/2009 07:18:10 PM
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Weren't you the one who wanted uncertainty and doubt?
13/11/2009 08:11:30 PM
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I have only one comment, and that's about your last sentence...
13/11/2009 08:43:13 PM
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Re: I have only one comment, and that's about your last sentence...
13/11/2009 09:01:24 PM
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I do have to say, though, that I would have burst out laughing if he balefired Tuon and the Seanchan
13/11/2009 10:25:30 PM
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Re: I have only one comment, and that's about your last sentence...
13/11/2009 09:44:31 PM
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You were shown as early as TDR that conquering someone doesn't mean they are going to follow you
14/11/2009 10:45:51 AM
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