I suspect we have three people with three ideas set in stone. But the arguments are still fun!
1. I place Sharina at the same level as Alivia - when she reaches her full potential. I see no problem with that whatsoever.
Agreed then.
And yet, Graendal casually threatens Demmy in WH, and doesn't mind challenging Lanfear to an OP duel.
And it was the other way around, by the way. She assumed Semirhage was the strongest of the three, and then reconsidered that it might be Demandred.
Then she coolly thinks of defeating either.
I think an ant would be squished in the actual difference in overall ability in the Power these three have.
Okay!
Thematic link need not mean arch foe. And Moggy as Nynaeve's arch foe is laughable, currently. With her strength, her angreal, her ter'angreal and the fact that she has defeated her twice before, all combine to make it inevitable that Nyn will wipe the floor with Moggy.
But the contrasts between the two were being emphasized even more! In one chapter, we have Semirhage talking about the cruelest pain she can give. In the next, Nynaeve realizes that sometimes, pain is needed, and should not be healed away.
In one chapter Cadsuane realizes that the way to break Semi is to hurt her pride, show her she is nothing special. A few chapters later, Nynaeve, who sees Cadsuane as her enemy, swallows her own pride and accepts her leadership in fighting for Rand. Difficult as it is, Nynaeve is not ruled by her pride. Her will power is not bound up in projecting an aura of invincibility. It comes from a core of principles, and this sets her up as Semirhage's true antithesis again.
I'm afraid this is plainly wrong. The thematic connection are very strong.
Here are some more:
Semi embroiders often. Nynaeve sucks at it.
Semi always wears unrelieved black. Nynaeve wears a variety of styles and colors.
Semi has an motherly exterior with a hard core. Nynaeve acts tough, but is motherly inside.
Yet, they both work by bludgeoning away their opposition. They can play political games if needed, but prefer not to.
All valid points. I don't see how Semirhage and Graendal being equal with Nynaeve and below only Lanfear among the FS contradicts this.
1. I place Sharina at the same level as Alivia - when she reaches her full potential. I see no problem with that whatsoever.
Agreed then.
2. In fact, the way Graendal speaks of Semirhage, possibly being the most POWERFUL member of the trio - makes me suspect that Semirhage is STRONGER than Graendal. After all, if Demandred is only a hair behind Lews Therin, how powerful must Semirhage be for Graendal to even briefly consider her more powerful than Demandred?
And yet, Graendal casually threatens Demmy in WH, and doesn't mind challenging Lanfear to an OP duel.
And it was the other way around, by the way. She assumed Semirhage was the strongest of the three, and then reconsidered that it might be Demandred.
Then she coolly thinks of defeating either.
I think an ant would be squished in the actual difference in overall ability in the Power these three have.
3. There is no evidence in either way on this matter, so let's leave this one for now.
Okay!
4. Thematically, Nynaeve and Semirhage have no connection whatsoever. This has been a false suggestion, based solely on the Healer issue. In truth, Nynaeve's arch foe is Moghedien.
Thematic link need not mean arch foe. And Moggy as Nynaeve's arch foe is laughable, currently. With her strength, her angreal, her ter'angreal and the fact that she has defeated her twice before, all combine to make it inevitable that Nyn will wipe the floor with Moggy.
The thematic link between Nynaeve and Semirhage has been broken once and for all in tGS. Despite them both being in the same vicinity, with ample opportunity to interact and possibly even confront one another, there is zero interaction between them. Right up to the point of Semirhage's death, Nynaeve and Semirhage have no link whatsoever.
But the contrasts between the two were being emphasized even more! In one chapter, we have Semirhage talking about the cruelest pain she can give. In the next, Nynaeve realizes that sometimes, pain is needed, and should not be healed away.
In one chapter Cadsuane realizes that the way to break Semi is to hurt her pride, show her she is nothing special. A few chapters later, Nynaeve, who sees Cadsuane as her enemy, swallows her own pride and accepts her leadership in fighting for Rand. Difficult as it is, Nynaeve is not ruled by her pride. Her will power is not bound up in projecting an aura of invincibility. It comes from a core of principles, and this sets her up as Semirhage's true antithesis again.
There is no thematic link between Nynaeve and Semirhage. There never has been, and now that Semirhage's dead, there never can be.
I'm afraid this is plainly wrong. The thematic connection are very strong.
Here are some more:
Semi embroiders often. Nynaeve sucks at it.
Semi always wears unrelieved black. Nynaeve wears a variety of styles and colors.
Semi has an motherly exterior with a hard core. Nynaeve acts tough, but is motherly inside.
Yet, they both work by bludgeoning away their opposition. They can play political games if needed, but prefer not to.
Lastly, my view of Semirhage has always been that she is the no.2 female Forsaken. Thematically, there are some links between her and Lanfear. She has a special hate for Lanfear, for some reason.
She always wears black because Lanfear always wears white. She hopes that time will give her Lanfear, to torture at leisure.
Bottomline, I think Semirhage enjoyed being respected and feared by all, and in her view, Lanfear was the only one who had greater stature than herself. And we know Lanfear's stature was based purely on her excpetional strength in the Power.
She always wears black because Lanfear always wears white. She hopes that time will give her Lanfear, to torture at leisure.
Bottomline, I think Semirhage enjoyed being respected and feared by all, and in her view, Lanfear was the only one who had greater stature than herself. And we know Lanfear's stature was based purely on her excpetional strength in the Power.
All valid points. I don't see how Semirhage and Graendal being equal with Nynaeve and below only Lanfear among the FS contradicts this.
Semirhage's strength in the Power...
12/11/2009 06:57:37 AM
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No you did not...
12/11/2009 07:27:06 AM
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I'll look again tonight, but I'm sure Nynaeve made a comment...
12/11/2009 07:33:29 AM
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Actually, Nynaeave is far stronger than Moghedian now
12/11/2009 12:30:29 PM
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We DON'T know that Graendal is stronger than Semirhage and Mesaana...
12/11/2009 12:48:32 PM
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Inconsistency?
12/11/2009 08:53:39 AM
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Holding a shield vs. making one...
12/11/2009 03:19:09 PM
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Don't they clearly say one single would suffice but they used 2 for
13/11/2009 04:57:15 AM
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To HOLD her. Didn't I make the distinction clear?
13/11/2009 05:04:58 AM
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Reducing the number of people holding the shield, reduces the strength of the shield correspondingly
13/11/2009 07:15:24 AM
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Not necessarily true (Plus, another possibility)...
13/11/2009 07:43:37 AM
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I agree about the angreal, but not the 1 woman shield part...
13/11/2009 07:50:26 AM
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Agree to disagree?
13/11/2009 08:07:59 AM
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Sure, just a couple of points...
13/11/2009 08:18:15 AM
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Re: Sure, just a couple of points...
13/11/2009 08:51:28 AM
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Interesting concept...
13/11/2009 08:59:53 AM
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The answer lies in a fundamental difference between spinning and maintaining a weave...
13/11/2009 09:33:00 AM
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Yeah, I posted on this
12/11/2009 08:53:26 PM
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Hmmm....
13/11/2009 12:42:37 AM
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Mesaana thought she matched Semirhage
13/11/2009 01:45:09 AM
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Re: Hmmm....
13/11/2009 06:56:56 AM
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I think Sanderson just doesn't have the interest and knowledge of relative strength that RJ did..
13/11/2009 07:07:45 AM
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Re: Hmmm....
13/11/2009 07:59:57 AM
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The reason behind our (certainly MY) hesitance to place Nynaeve too high, is Alivia...
13/11/2009 08:04:51 AM
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There is a simple answer... skill...
13/11/2009 08:21:25 AM
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Except that...
13/11/2009 08:49:15 AM
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What about Sharina?
13/11/2009 09:17:20 AM
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No evidence either way, but you leave a massive gap between Lanfear and the average Forsaken...
13/11/2009 09:31:27 AM
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I don't think it's massive
13/11/2009 09:46:27 AM
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