I've always held to the position that balefire did not permanently destroy a thread, it just killed them in the past. Because if it were the former, then humanity would be in perpetual decrease - if there are no new souls to be introduced into the system, but souls can be taken out, then there is an inevitable and continuous loss. And since time is circular, meaning an infinite amount of time elapsed since the beginning, then there has been an infinite loss of souls, for no gain of souls and a finite number of souls. It's simply impossible.
However, the wording employed in that chapter definitely indicates that this is the case. Aside from the redundant 'dead forever' employed, Nynaeve says "Rand, you used balefire! They were burned out of existence!" The fact that she emphasises the use of balefire means that it is different, with this tone, worse, then simply being dead.
Hence the impossibility, and the problem. Which is why I created this thread in the first place.
However, the wording employed in that chapter definitely indicates that this is the case. Aside from the redundant 'dead forever' employed, Nynaeve says "Rand, you used balefire! They were burned out of existence!" The fact that she emphasises the use of balefire means that it is different, with this tone, worse, then simply being dead.
Hence the impossibility, and the problem. Which is why I created this thread in the first place.
i think maybe you are taking two things out of context. Min is responsible for the dead forever comment. She is not a channeler and she may simply not fully understand the concept. Though her actual definition fits what we know. As for Nynaeve's "burned out of existence" comment it is a little harder to explain but they just felt existence wobble it's quite possible that the reason balefire was outlawed is the reason Nynaeve made such an irrational statement. By burning people with balefire he threatens existence and so that is somewhat a true statement. The means of their deaths threaten existence and therefore their return to existence. Of course the simpler explaination is that existence simply means life and that Nynaeve's anger over the massacre and the method were separate if concurrent. When i read it I never questioned the facts as issued by RJ . So the last possibility is that Sanderson misspoke. Personally i'm going to go with the Nynaeve comment of existence having more to do with the massacre and the balefire only a more practical horror. I think you're just being word sensitive.
I'm not sure I am completly following this discussion because I always have understood that the use of balefire on a person wiped them out completely, the dark one can't revive them and the wheel won't spin them out again because their soul is gone. I always thought that was clearly explained. Also, the I understood the reason that balefire threatens existence itself is becaue the stronger the weave of balefire used, the farther back that persons thread was burned, which will in turn unravel other threads because the past would have to change to take that person out. So theoretically if a strong enough weave of balefire was used it could unravel the entire pattern to the point that existence itself would fall apart. I took Nynaeve's comment just to mean that she's been told enough about balefire that she understands this and that's why she says that.
It makes you die before the balefiring took place. Dying before you died threatens the pattern because other things that were woven now never happened. The allusion to burning is just that. a reference to the damage that can be done not to the actual destruction of a thread. The fact that the DO can technically rescue a balefired person is proof that the thread is still usable even though it has been removed from the pattern.
Chapter 37
- 08/11/2009 03:15:34 AM
940 Views
Yes, but limits--can still be re-spun and some balefire may not work
- 08/11/2009 03:41:52 AM
565 Views
It's the 're-spun' part that bothers me.
- 08/11/2009 04:37:08 AM
548 Views
Can't know, except logic
- 08/11/2009 05:03:17 AM
579 Views
That doesn't make sense contextually though.
- 08/11/2009 05:36:02 AM
569 Views
Re: That doesn't make sense contextually though.
- 08/11/2009 07:17:27 AM
498 Views
Re: That doesn't make sense contextually though.
- 08/11/2009 01:25:06 PM
593 Views
balefire doesn't keep you from being respun.
- 13/11/2009 09:16:27 AM
543 Views
Re: That doesn't make sense contextually though.
- 08/11/2009 08:18:44 PM
500 Views
I maintain that my first impression and my rereading it did not cause me to question how it works
- 13/11/2009 09:41:20 AM
456 Views
Hmm
- 18/11/2009 11:56:09 PM
405 Views
no he said the person dies "before" the DO's know's they are gone.
- 23/11/2009 02:15:11 AM
421 Views
Forever in context means not resurrected not not reincarnated *NM*
- 08/11/2009 06:37:50 AM
180 Views
Re: It's the 're-spun' part that bothers me.
- 08/11/2009 07:43:03 AM
504 Views
But she has been studying about the workings of the Wheel.
- 08/11/2009 08:13:26 PM
447 Views
Re: But she has been studying about the workings of the Wheel.
- 08/11/2009 09:08:11 PM
625 Views