Re: Well, actually- yes! The LTT/Rand thing IS creepy.
Curie Send a noteboard - 11/11/2009 04:30:28 PM
He [Rand] has an insane, long-dead man who accidentally killed his family and destroyed the world in his head, constantly threatening to, at best, merge with his personality (at worst, take it over completely).
It's EXTREMELY creepy, and it's meant to be so. Consider everyone's reactions to Rand whenever he accidentally slips into Lews Therin mode. He's constantly laughing to himself, or randomly flying into rages, or demonstrating knowledge that he just. shouldn't. have. There are only a handful of people in the world who aren't terrified of him to some extent.
Think what it would be like if some ancient warlord suddenly appeared in your brain. Yes, you might learn some cool new fighting moves, but you also would constantly be battling to keep your personality from being.
My response:
Polygamy is for you a good or accepted form of relation between women and men. What is your opinion on polyandry then?
Personally, I do not think that polygamy (or polyandry) is evil in itself. But I do not recommend it.
According to my opinion, polygamy was, to some extend, reasonable in ancient societies with deficit of males. It was a case among Arabic, Jewish and other tribes, permanently engaged in intertribal wars and interfamily feuds. I believe that function similar to widespread polygamy on Middle East, was fulfilled in Middle America by not so numerous, huge harems of Aztec aristocracy - young prisoners of war were slaughtered on the top of holy pyramids, surplus of women ended in harems. I really do not promote such customs, but I understand that polygamy in the war-oriented civilization was an important factor to stabilize the society.
Polyandry is a traditional practice in some Himalaya valleys. With scarce resources, in order to prevent famine and, in result, extinction of the whole population, birth reduction is applied by killing female infants and by sending young girls to nunneries. Surplus of men in a family, usually brothers or cousins, is married to one women.
In last millenium polygamy and polyandry became an obsolete and unproductive custom. Farming in northern hemisphere required long lasting cooperation between men and women. Stable couples were more efficient as peasants then slaves in big Roman latifundia with loose family ties. I time, huge farms collapsed, peasants survived. Church blessed monogamy. All of this strengthened monogamic family as a basic social unit in Middle Ages. After industrial revolution, legal monogamy is still maintained in modern, western societies, because it is functional in supporting equal position of men and women. Both sexes learn and work. In Muslim countries half of population is deprived of rights and education. Women are scheduled to give pleasure to men, to rise babies and to work in kitchen. Even in rich and educated families women are submitted to men. This is not only very unjust, this is unproductive.
Always there is an evolution of customs when civilization changes. Monogamic marriage seems to be much more loose nowadays then it was one century ago. Divorces are frequent, short time unions popular. But I do not expect that polygamy in foreseeable future will become social norm in both Americas, Europe or China.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
Above I presented, in a nut shell, what I think as far polygamy is concerned. But, of course, it is irrelevant, what is my attitude, moral or practical, to this subject. What matters, is intention of Robert Jordan what to do, at the end of books, with the three lovers of Rand. Two of them can die. If not, there are four possibilities:
1. Rand will abandon all girls and become a beggar, or will flow with them by boat to the Islands of Death, etc ...,
2. Rand will live with all three girls,
3. Rand will spurn Avi and Min, and will live happily with queen Elayna,
4. Three girls melt and Rand will live, as you said, with hive-mind monster.
You do not like hive-mind and you think that Robert Jordan, obviously, followed your fillings and decided to choose solution number 2.
I am not fond of hive-mind, as well. But I believe that Robert Jordan invented hive-mind in case of melting Rand's and LLT's personalities, and also in case of Mat's mind, filled with memory of many military leaders. And, I doubt that Robert Jordan treated melting personalities as a repulsive concept. I believe that Robert Jordan decided to melt wonder girls in order to recreate Iliena. I am not a judge of him, I am not telling that it is a nice idea or a repugnant one. I am trying to decipher hints, he spread all over last books with aim to show his plan to very observant readers only. List of his hints I gave in my basic post.
Perhaps, in preparation of post I made a mistake giving my opinion on WHY Robert Jordan decided to melt girls and not chose group-couple for them. Readers of my post, unfortunately, concentrated their comments on "morals", if polygamy is decent or not, and what they think I think, instead focusing their attention on what Robert Jordan wrote, and I only subsequently cited and discussed.
It's EXTREMELY creepy, and it's meant to be so. Consider everyone's reactions to Rand whenever he accidentally slips into Lews Therin mode. He's constantly laughing to himself, or randomly flying into rages, or demonstrating knowledge that he just. shouldn't. have. There are only a handful of people in the world who aren't terrified of him to some extent.
Think what it would be like if some ancient warlord suddenly appeared in your brain. Yes, you might learn some cool new fighting moves, but you also would constantly be battling to keep your personality from being.
My response:
Polygamy is for you a good or accepted form of relation between women and men. What is your opinion on polyandry then?
Personally, I do not think that polygamy (or polyandry) is evil in itself. But I do not recommend it.
According to my opinion, polygamy was, to some extend, reasonable in ancient societies with deficit of males. It was a case among Arabic, Jewish and other tribes, permanently engaged in intertribal wars and interfamily feuds. I believe that function similar to widespread polygamy on Middle East, was fulfilled in Middle America by not so numerous, huge harems of Aztec aristocracy - young prisoners of war were slaughtered on the top of holy pyramids, surplus of women ended in harems. I really do not promote such customs, but I understand that polygamy in the war-oriented civilization was an important factor to stabilize the society.
Polyandry is a traditional practice in some Himalaya valleys. With scarce resources, in order to prevent famine and, in result, extinction of the whole population, birth reduction is applied by killing female infants and by sending young girls to nunneries. Surplus of men in a family, usually brothers or cousins, is married to one women.
In last millenium polygamy and polyandry became an obsolete and unproductive custom. Farming in northern hemisphere required long lasting cooperation between men and women. Stable couples were more efficient as peasants then slaves in big Roman latifundia with loose family ties. I time, huge farms collapsed, peasants survived. Church blessed monogamy. All of this strengthened monogamic family as a basic social unit in Middle Ages. After industrial revolution, legal monogamy is still maintained in modern, western societies, because it is functional in supporting equal position of men and women. Both sexes learn and work. In Muslim countries half of population is deprived of rights and education. Women are scheduled to give pleasure to men, to rise babies and to work in kitchen. Even in rich and educated families women are submitted to men. This is not only very unjust, this is unproductive.
Always there is an evolution of customs when civilization changes. Monogamic marriage seems to be much more loose nowadays then it was one century ago. Divorces are frequent, short time unions popular. But I do not expect that polygamy in foreseeable future will become social norm in both Americas, Europe or China.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
Above I presented, in a nut shell, what I think as far polygamy is concerned. But, of course, it is irrelevant, what is my attitude, moral or practical, to this subject. What matters, is intention of Robert Jordan what to do, at the end of books, with the three lovers of Rand. Two of them can die. If not, there are four possibilities:
1. Rand will abandon all girls and become a beggar, or will flow with them by boat to the Islands of Death, etc ...,
2. Rand will live with all three girls,
3. Rand will spurn Avi and Min, and will live happily with queen Elayna,
4. Three girls melt and Rand will live, as you said, with hive-mind monster.
You do not like hive-mind and you think that Robert Jordan, obviously, followed your fillings and decided to choose solution number 2.
I am not fond of hive-mind, as well. But I believe that Robert Jordan invented hive-mind in case of melting Rand's and LLT's personalities, and also in case of Mat's mind, filled with memory of many military leaders. And, I doubt that Robert Jordan treated melting personalities as a repulsive concept. I believe that Robert Jordan decided to melt wonder girls in order to recreate Iliena. I am not a judge of him, I am not telling that it is a nice idea or a repugnant one. I am trying to decipher hints, he spread all over last books with aim to show his plan to very observant readers only. List of his hints I gave in my basic post.
Perhaps, in preparation of post I made a mistake giving my opinion on WHY Robert Jordan decided to melt girls and not chose group-couple for them. Readers of my post, unfortunately, concentrated their comments on "morals", if polygamy is decent or not, and what they think I think, instead focusing their attention on what Robert Jordan wrote, and I only subsequently cited and discussed.
Min's riddle
08/11/2009 02:45:09 PM
- 2083 Views
Re: Min's riddle
08/11/2009 03:20:53 PM
- 897 Views
That third isn't so mysterious
08/11/2009 04:45:31 PM
- 899 Views
Re: That third isn't so mysterious
08/11/2009 04:47:10 PM
- 870 Views
It was stated explicitly that the third person is Moridin.
08/11/2009 05:19:16 PM
- 885 Views
Re: It was stated explicitly that the third person is Moridin.
08/11/2009 06:33:22 PM
- 886 Views
Wrong again. Pages 235-236 in The Gathering Storm are very clear about this.
08/11/2009 10:31:13 PM
- 1008 Views
Re: Wrong again. Pages 235-236 in The Gathering Storm are very clear about this.
08/11/2009 11:01:53 PM
- 973 Views
Well, if you want to pull ideas out of your ass there's no way to debate anything.
08/11/2009 11:35:43 PM
- 846 Views
I think you shold know that you are a boor. Bye. *NM*
08/11/2009 11:47:54 PM
- 433 Views
I was more polite to you and your silly theories than you deserved.
09/11/2009 01:32:30 AM
- 756 Views
Nowhere does it state that Moridin is the third. Just one of EIGHT people in Rand's head.
25/11/2009 08:27:31 AM
- 1316 Views
It's been known for... a long time, but like Tom says, it was actually stated in tGS *NM*
08/11/2009 06:04:46 PM
- 554 Views
Min's riddle is perhaps solved
08/11/2009 03:43:27 PM
- 1179 Views
Hmmm. Not agreeing or disagreeing...but Min had a "Melting" viewing before
08/11/2009 08:34:36 PM
- 878 Views
Three things...
08/11/2009 08:40:37 PM
- 1175 Views
Uh...Hello...Ilyena...Elayne...see any similarity?
09/11/2009 05:37:45 AM
- 797 Views
You have some far-out theories and seem to think I’m retarded for not thinking the same
09/11/2009 10:16:51 AM
- 827 Views
I didn't "seem" to think it until now. I was AGREEING with you.
09/11/2009 03:02:15 PM
- 694 Views
I don't see how when I disagree with about everything you said
09/11/2009 11:40:19 PM
- 625 Views
Well, ultimately I couldn't care less what you think. Goodbye. *NM*
10/11/2009 03:13:09 AM
- 402 Views
Eh, there's no evidence of that, other than an abundance of vowels in their name.
10/11/2009 06:49:58 AM
- 694 Views
Answer to Crackbranded Asha' man: Where has it ever been shown that Taim is gay?
09/11/2009 06:25:42 PM
- 1047 Views
So... everyone pointing out how terrible this theory is in your original post hasn't disuaded you?
09/11/2009 04:47:25 AM
- 739 Views
Re: So... everyone pointing out how terrible this theory is ...
10/11/2009 12:03:02 PM
- 755 Views
Well, actually- yes! The LTT/Rand thing IS creepy.
10/11/2009 04:33:02 PM
- 930 Views
Re: Well, actually- yes! The LTT/Rand thing IS creepy.
11/11/2009 04:30:28 PM
- 966 Views
Channelling sickness, pregnancy-induced difficulty with weaving...
08/11/2009 03:53:26 PM
- 806 Views
Rand + Avi + Elayne = Three Channelers.
08/11/2009 05:59:34 PM
- 669 Views
Do you think, that channeling is cool?
08/11/2009 07:46:18 PM
- 788 Views
We're running out of time for the main characters to not start figuring things out.
08/11/2009 10:33:34 PM
- 614 Views
The riddle was simply a clue about safely using callandor. Nothing else.
09/11/2009 12:45:49 AM
- 828 Views
Too simple and obvious. *NM*
08/11/2009 07:56:05 PM
- 365 Views
Appearantly it wasn't obvious...
09/11/2009 12:51:07 AM
- 671 Views
Well... readers have always been better at figuring out the prophecies than characters
09/11/2009 04:56:23 AM
- 839 Views
But readers get the filtered bits and pieces. The characters have access to whole reams of works.
14/11/2009 03:25:50 PM
- 668 Views
I know- that's my point. It's a lot harder to pick things out for them
14/11/2009 06:47:07 PM
- 759 Views
Re: Min's riddle
08/11/2009 09:24:11 PM
- 898 Views
It's a possibility.
09/11/2009 04:59:33 AM
- 1158 Views
I can see this as a definite possibility
09/11/2009 10:12:23 PM
- 678 Views
It'd be more like David knocking out Goliath by making him punch himself in the face
10/11/2009 06:58:16 AM
- 721 Views
So why...
10/11/2009 10:14:38 AM
- 595 Views
The Dark One is sentient; the CK is just a tool *NM*
10/11/2009 04:33:52 PM
- 308 Views
True, but it wouldn't be the first time in this series... *NM*
10/11/2009 09:34:19 PM
- 415 Views
My point was that you can't really compare it to destroying the CK- it's a totally different
11/11/2009 07:02:54 AM
- 700 Views
How about LTT (loud voice), Old Rand (tiny voice), and New Rand? They have already become "one" *NM*
04/12/2009 06:32:20 AM
- 435 Views