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Re: Hmm, I have some problems with this RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 06/11/2009 02:34:54 PM
What I would need to be convinced is that she was surprised that she died. We don't have that. All we have is Rand balefiring a palace.

As to other points, they indicate how many holes are in accepting your opinion at face value: 1) Wards can be placed before time all around the area just to give her some indication in case threats come (the Tower has these - I doubt a Forsaken would neglect to erect them) 2) The messenger he sent WAS a heralf of an imminent attack. I'm not sure why people keep forgetting this but Rahvin himself was sitting in his palace when Rand suddenly appeared - surprise attacks are part of his strategy 3) You still don't really confront the idea that her gameplan was to make him angry enough to come against her directly, and as soon as she saw an indication he was doing so, she would leave. I think her master plan was to make him so mad that he'd start balefiring indiscriminately, and he almost did this to the Seanchan. 4) Plus you never really address the fact that there are holes in the idea that the fading of Compulsion wasn't due to the possibility that she simply wasn't in the palace, saw what happened from another area and decided that it was best to make him think she was dead - this is not that hard to do, especially since you can Travel somewhere, and look through the gateway as a scrying glass. She very well might have been on a hill somewhere in the very advantageous mountainside overlooking her palace to see what would happen.

And my biggest complaint still remains: You are giving a lot of weight to evidence that goes against how she acts. If she was no longer willing to confront him knowing he had access to Callandor and now the Choedan Kal, why would you think she would assume he doesn't carry the access key around? She stays alive because she thinks of all possibilities and honestly, the way Rand was acting the entire book broadcast to any spy she had around that he intended to carry the access key everywhere with him.

I think so many of you are getting so caught up in the scope and magnitude of the attack that you are dismissing the major possibility that she wanted this to happen and this was to be her sign of how unbalanced she had made him. Basically, this seemed exactly like what she would want him to do to show what depths he could sink to. I think her next step was for him to do the same to the Seanchan. I'm also reminded of the scene where the Dark One asks her if she would use balefire on his behalf. This was eerily similar to that except she was prompting and poking Rand to unleash it and cause more chaos than she ever could.

Don't forget - Graendal's reputation is not just that she has a Talent for Compulsion, is great at gathering information, great at survival and possessed of strength and courage...she also used to treat people with mental conditions and help madmen with their insanity. Rand's insanity and mental condition is actually something she is familiar with manipulating.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 06/11/2009 at 02:39:43 PM
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Graendal - maybe the deadliest Forsaken - 05/11/2009 07:00:12 AM 1612 Views
It has definitely been hinted - 05/11/2009 08:37:04 AM 697 Views
Graendal wasn't that deadly... - 05/11/2009 09:37:24 AM 733 Views
I think she was - 05/11/2009 02:42:48 PM 605 Views
RJ still put her in the top category of the Forsaken.. - 05/11/2009 05:24:06 PM 669 Views
I think she's the most deadly and intelligent. The others are idiots, IMHO. - 05/11/2009 06:38:30 PM 594 Views
This whole Graendal is alive-idea - 05/11/2009 07:13:16 PM 625 Views
I'm divided on it.. - 05/11/2009 07:19:07 PM 537 Views
Here's the deal, though. Semirhage actions actually followed part of the theory to a tee. - 05/11/2009 07:21:21 PM 537 Views
Ah, anyway... - 05/11/2009 07:58:05 PM 492 Views
I agree with you - 05/11/2009 07:32:39 PM 576 Views
Exactly. - 05/11/2009 07:56:00 PM 713 Views
I just don't understand the logic here - 05/11/2009 07:25:20 PM 610 Views
It's quite simple logic. - 05/11/2009 08:05:15 PM 603 Views
Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 09:41:53 PM 517 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 10:58:01 PM 481 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 11:58:24 PM 616 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 06/11/2009 02:22:51 PM 539 Views
It is a possibility. - 06/11/2009 03:43:22 AM 515 Views
Hmm, I have some problems with this - 06/11/2009 04:23:23 AM 606 Views
Some points no one addressed, a.k.a. Graendal lured Rand in... - 06/11/2009 05:16:12 AM 572 Views
Still no answers. I think I'm correct in feeling she is alive. *NM* - 06/11/2009 09:25:47 PM 214 Views
Re: Hmm, I have some problems with this - 06/11/2009 02:34:54 PM 581 Views
But... - 06/11/2009 02:56:32 PM 512 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 03:07:02 PM 535 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 03:53:41 PM 681 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 07:35:12 PM 500 Views
She's definitely the deadiest - 05/11/2009 02:05:23 PM 612 Views
I think she escaped, but it says something that he had to become worse than a Forsaken to do it - 05/11/2009 06:10:08 PM 516 Views
Eventually they will be reborn... - 05/11/2009 06:30:45 PM 464 Views
Thanks for reminding me. Oh well, then I'm stuck with the whole tearing apart the Pattern thing - 05/11/2009 06:44:35 PM 477 Views
Moiraine says. - 05/11/2009 07:02:10 PM 494 Views
In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 05/11/2009 07:14:44 PM 522 Views
Re: In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 05/11/2009 07:35:18 PM 591 Views
From what I keep hearing - 05/11/2009 08:58:57 PM 547 Views
I could well believe it - 05/11/2009 11:03:40 PM 439 Views
Re: In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 06/11/2009 09:00:01 PM 425 Views
I conceed to Rand's point - 05/11/2009 06:31:38 PM 602 Views
I don't think it's acceptable to tear apart the Pattern to save it. - 05/11/2009 06:40:22 PM 448 Views
True... - 05/11/2009 06:57:24 PM 487 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 07:07:07 PM 467 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 07:35:06 PM 528 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 08:07:42 PM 483 Views
I always thought she was the most dangerous of the chicks. - 06/11/2009 04:28:43 AM 572 Views
Difference between being dangerous and hard to kill--but, she is dangerous - 08/11/2009 02:19:34 AM 543 Views
Semirhage did far more destruction than Graendal. - 24/11/2009 06:09:18 PM 533 Views
Graendal also made chaos in Shara, though... - 24/11/2009 06:36:15 PM 417 Views
It's not surprising when you start looking at her parallels - 12/12/2009 01:03:25 AM 400 Views
Not to take away from Graendal, but my vote goes to Semirhage or Aginor - 16/12/2009 07:03:52 PM 412 Views
meh - 19/12/2009 11:56:12 PM 425 Views

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