I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills
Asha'man Send a noteboard - 01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM
Actually, I don't agree with any of it, not with the specific points you make - my problems lie elsewhere, though I'm sure you'll have thought along those lines as well.
My main problem with Egwene's storyline in tGS, actually, more than anything else, is that the reduction of Aes Sedai from demi-goddesses in EotW to ordinary human beings in the recent books, is taken to a whole new level here, with almost all of them reduced to squabbling grade schoolers who need Egwene to lead them by the hand and teach them. Elaida was an egocentric and cold woman at first, but she was not a doddering imbecile as in this book. The infamous supper scene in front of the five Sitters was, I will admit, quite fun to read, as I and I dare say many other readers have waited for Elaida to get put in her place for quite a while. But it was exaggeratedly hagiographic towards Egwene, as most of her storyline is - some of the inverted classes in which Egwene teaches women up to five, six times her age or more what to do are particularly bad in this respect (including one with not just one, but three AS, one of them Sitter *and* Head of the White Ajah...). Perhaps it's just that having the Tower AS raise her Amyrlin as well is so unbelievable a plot point, that any attempt to get there would've felt stretched. Perhaps another way could've been found that was better. Or perhaps RJ should've just admitted from the start that Egwene is apparently ta'veren (which incidentally is one notable thing that Sanderson seems to do much less subtly than RJ did it, as seen with Ituralde and Tuon, and one could argue also with Verin).
My main problem with Egwene's storyline in tGS, actually, more than anything else, is that the reduction of Aes Sedai from demi-goddesses in EotW to ordinary human beings in the recent books, is taken to a whole new level here, with almost all of them reduced to squabbling grade schoolers who need Egwene to lead them by the hand and teach them. Elaida was an egocentric and cold woman at first, but she was not a doddering imbecile as in this book. The infamous supper scene in front of the five Sitters was, I will admit, quite fun to read, as I and I dare say many other readers have waited for Elaida to get put in her place for quite a while. But it was exaggeratedly hagiographic towards Egwene, as most of her storyline is - some of the inverted classes in which Egwene teaches women up to five, six times her age or more what to do are particularly bad in this respect (including one with not just one, but three AS, one of them Sitter *and* Head of the White Ajah...). Perhaps it's just that having the Tower AS raise her Amyrlin as well is so unbelievable a plot point, that any attempt to get there would've felt stretched. Perhaps another way could've been found that was better. Or perhaps RJ should've just admitted from the start that Egwene is apparently ta'veren (which incidentally is one notable thing that Sanderson seems to do much less subtly than RJ did it, as seen with Ituralde and Tuon, and one could argue also with Verin).
My re-read stopped at TSR, so I don't recall the middle books with clarity, but I suppose Elaida's megalomania has really been brewing since her ascension to the Amyrlin Seat. And then grown exponentially after (or during - can't remember!) KoD and before TGS.
And while it was immensely funny, and not to mention somewhat satisfying, a part of me yearns for serene Moiraine, ironclad Elaida, and their like!
The Seanchan attack specifically didn't bother me that much - Egwene is not so foolish as to consider her achievements a great victory, nor does she fail to realize what has happened, and that the Seanchan raid will not be seen as a failure. Here, too, the reactions and hero-worship of other AS who really should know better bother me more than her taking the lead. Adelorna, head of the supposed Battle Ajah, seems to be content following her around like a puppy instead of doing something useful.
As for your central point in comparing this to Rand's battle in tPoD, it has been a while since I read tPoD, but as I recall it, *he* is the main one to consider it a failure. The Seanchans from their end state that they've suffered a crushing defeat, and as far as I can recall, Rand's generals correctly think that he's done about as well as might've been expected. The only one that keeps complaining about the failure is Rand himself - it doesn't necessarily follow that the author agrees with that assessment.
Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen One.
30/10/2009 02:36:19 AM
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I skimmed cannoli's predictable rant. I disagree. I LOVED EVERY CHAPTER!
30/10/2009 03:29:24 AM
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I liked her chapters. Mainly because they gave her something to do.
30/10/2009 09:43:58 PM
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I adore Brandon Sanderson.
30/10/2009 05:05:11 AM
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Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson.
30/10/2009 02:45:03 PM
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Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson.
30/10/2009 04:34:53 PM
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Ditto. Thought he was a breath of fresh air to the series.
30/10/2009 03:27:43 PM
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If renewal means someone grossly unfamiliar with the series, sure.
30/10/2009 06:26:19 PM
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Everything up to tGS
30/10/2009 06:25:28 PM
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Re: Everything up to tGS
30/10/2009 08:21:33 PM
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What on earth makes you think I dislike it?
31/10/2009 05:25:07 AM
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General impression lately I guess.
31/10/2009 04:38:29 PM
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Don't agree completely but what I do want to see is
30/10/2009 07:12:54 AM
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so I guess ...
30/10/2009 02:48:10 PM
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You want a friend like Mat
30/10/2009 06:33:47 PM
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Yes, he will pull thru 4 u in the end, but Matt still needs to grow up. and fast *NM*
30/10/2009 07:32:28 PM
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might I add..
30/10/2009 08:30:24 AM
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Re: might I add..
30/10/2009 10:41:39 AM
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I sit somewhere in the middle, she's improved, but still many flaws
30/10/2009 11:35:47 AM
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Like others don't have flaws?
30/10/2009 02:58:08 PM
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EVERYTHING is handed to her on a platter!
30/10/2009 06:41:02 PM
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Touched a nerve did I?
30/10/2009 07:19:00 PM
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Re: Touched a nerve did I?
31/10/2009 06:36:33 AM
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Re: Touched a nerve did I?
31/10/2009 09:33:34 AM
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Bah
30/10/2009 03:36:42 PM
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Actually, Elaida WILL reveal Traveling. We've seen countless times AS broken easily by the Seanchan. *NM*
30/10/2009 05:28:06 PM
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More than likely, but if anyone could avoid giving it up it would be stubborn, self rightous Elaida.
30/10/2009 09:20:31 PM
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A personal question: Cannoli, are you threatened by a powerful woman?
30/10/2009 07:13:30 PM
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Obviously.
31/10/2009 05:37:52 AM
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I'm afraid of the ooze left over when I take spam out of a can *shiver* *NM*
31/10/2009 05:39:03 AM
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Well...
31/10/2009 05:56:56 AM
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Countries are real, normal and natural things. The White Tower has no proven value.
31/10/2009 06:52:48 AM
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Tar Valon is a nation
31/10/2009 09:20:43 AM
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The Aes Sedai are not. The Tower as a whole rules the polity of Tar Valon.
31/10/2009 11:34:42 PM
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The "Elaida's election was illegal because of Black Ajah Sitters" is really an absurd argument
01/11/2009 12:06:32 AM
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It wasn't absurd. Just clever...
01/11/2009 03:33:22 AM
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I wasn't saying the rebels had no cause for rebellion. Just that the election *was* legal.
01/11/2009 10:38:59 AM
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Hmm.....
06/11/2009 04:18:14 PM
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I take it she'll carefully avoid bringing up the war vote, then. *NM*
08/11/2009 12:47:21 AM
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Re: Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen
30/10/2009 11:38:24 PM
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The harbor chain incident was no less stupid because it helped her
31/10/2009 05:40:20 AM
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It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats.
31/10/2009 07:18:42 AM
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Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats.
31/10/2009 09:28:16 AM
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Don't expect rationality from Cannoli...
31/10/2009 02:01:45 PM
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Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987....
01/11/2009 01:07:06 AM
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Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987....
01/11/2009 04:30:21 AM
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Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats.
01/11/2009 12:31:10 AM
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I have one question
01/11/2009 07:12:23 AM
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Capture, NOT kill, and she herself said the sa'angreal made that impossible.
01/11/2009 07:59:44 AM
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Re: The harbor chain incident was no less stupid because it helped her
31/10/2009 04:31:29 PM
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I don't agree with all of that, but yes, Egwene's successes are a little too much.
31/10/2009 04:30:32 PM
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I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills
01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM
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There were a few instances in the book where Egwene really bothered me.
02/11/2009 12:54:10 AM
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Poor cannoli; give it a rest you ridiculous numsquatz
07/11/2009 06:43:10 PM
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Yes, my long string of complaints about Sanderson has reached the limit.
09/11/2009 05:22:23 PM
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Re: Yes, my long string of complaints about Sanderson has reached the limit.
10/11/2009 07:36:46 AM
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