Active Users:1132 Time:22/11/2024 08:51:34 PM
I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills Asha'man Send a noteboard - 01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM
Actually, I don't agree with any of it, not with the specific points you make - my problems lie elsewhere, though I'm sure you'll have thought along those lines as well.

My main problem with Egwene's storyline in tGS, actually, more than anything else, is that the reduction of Aes Sedai from demi-goddesses in EotW to ordinary human beings in the recent books, is taken to a whole new level here, with almost all of them reduced to squabbling grade schoolers who need Egwene to lead them by the hand and teach them. Elaida was an egocentric and cold woman at first, but she was not a doddering imbecile as in this book. The infamous supper scene in front of the five Sitters was, I will admit, quite fun to read, as I and I dare say many other readers have waited for Elaida to get put in her place for quite a while. But it was exaggeratedly hagiographic towards Egwene, as most of her storyline is - some of the inverted classes in which Egwene teaches women up to five, six times her age or more what to do are particularly bad in this respect (including one with not just one, but three AS, one of them Sitter *and* Head of the White Ajah...). Perhaps it's just that having the Tower AS raise her Amyrlin as well is so unbelievable a plot point, that any attempt to get there would've felt stretched. Perhaps another way could've been found that was better. Or perhaps RJ should've just admitted from the start that Egwene is apparently ta'veren (which incidentally is one notable thing that Sanderson seems to do much less subtly than RJ did it, as seen with Ituralde and Tuon, and one could argue also with Verin).


My re-read stopped at TSR, so I don't recall the middle books with clarity, but I suppose Elaida's megalomania has really been brewing since her ascension to the Amyrlin Seat. And then grown exponentially after (or during - can't remember!) KoD and before TGS.

And while it was immensely funny, and not to mention somewhat satisfying, a part of me yearns for serene Moiraine, ironclad Elaida, and their like! :disapprove:


The Seanchan attack specifically didn't bother me that much - Egwene is not so foolish as to consider her achievements a great victory, nor does she fail to realize what has happened, and that the Seanchan raid will not be seen as a failure. Here, too, the reactions and hero-worship of other AS who really should know better bother me more than her taking the lead. Adelorna, head of the supposed Battle Ajah, seems to be content following her around like a puppy instead of doing something useful.

As for your central point in comparing this to Rand's battle in tPoD, it has been a while since I read tPoD, but as I recall it, *he* is the main one to consider it a failure. The Seanchans from their end state that they've suffered a crushing defeat, and as far as I can recall, Rand's generals correctly think that he's done about as well as might've been expected. The only one that keeps complaining about the failure is Rand himself - it doesn't necessarily follow that the author agrees with that assessment.
Reply to message
Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen One. - 30/10/2009 02:36:19 AM 2444 Views
Life in unfair, just let Egwene have it already. - 30/10/2009 03:11:04 AM 849 Views
I skimmed cannoli's predictable rant. I disagree. I LOVED EVERY CHAPTER! - 30/10/2009 03:29:24 AM 803 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 30/10/2009 03:47:52 AM 503 Views
I liked her chapters. Mainly because they gave her something to do. - 30/10/2009 09:43:58 PM 721 Views
I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 05:05:11 AM 833 Views
Me too - 30/10/2009 10:38:52 AM 888 Views
Exactly. - 30/10/2009 04:33:11 PM 734 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 02:45:03 PM 901 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 04:34:53 PM 754 Views
I think he meant Cannoli, not you, Seriana. *NM* - 30/10/2009 05:30:17 PM 431 Views
Ahhh. - 30/10/2009 09:15:14 PM 729 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 31/10/2009 03:51:14 AM 731 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 01/11/2009 06:37:41 AM 753 Views
Ditto. Thought he was a breath of fresh air to the series. - 30/10/2009 03:27:43 PM 718 Views
If renewal means someone grossly unfamiliar with the series, sure. - 30/10/2009 06:26:19 PM 1242 Views
Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 06:25:28 PM 942 Views
Re: Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 08:21:33 PM 922 Views
What on earth makes you think I dislike it? - 31/10/2009 05:25:07 AM 830 Views
General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 04:38:29 PM 766 Views
Re: General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 10:41:06 PM 762 Views
Thanks. - 01/11/2009 06:32:12 AM 841 Views
double post, hate my computer. - 30/10/2009 08:24:12 PM 832 Views
Don't agree completely but what I do want to see is - 30/10/2009 07:12:54 AM 753 Views
so I guess ... - 30/10/2009 02:48:10 PM 935 Views
You want a friend like Mat - 30/10/2009 06:33:47 PM 735 Views
might I add.. - 30/10/2009 08:30:24 AM 683 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 10:41:39 AM 780 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 06:47:17 PM 788 Views
There is a difference between defending your home from attack - 31/10/2009 03:34:57 PM 707 Views
I sit somewhere in the middle, she's improved, but still many flaws - 30/10/2009 11:35:47 AM 782 Views
Like others don't have flaws? - 30/10/2009 02:58:08 PM 776 Views
EVERYTHING is handed to her on a platter! - 30/10/2009 06:41:02 PM 800 Views
Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:19:00 PM 892 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:24:41 PM 815 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:31:14 PM 871 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 06:36:33 AM 763 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 09:33:34 AM 771 Views
And you aren't? - 01/11/2009 12:42:50 AM 736 Views
Seems to me you're both right. - 01/11/2009 07:45:12 PM 715 Views
Bah - 30/10/2009 03:36:42 PM 810 Views
wait a sec... - 30/10/2009 04:31:56 PM 877 Views
Now now! Let's take off the rose-tinted glasses for a minute. - 30/10/2009 05:21:07 PM 710 Views
Re: Bah - 30/10/2009 06:49:47 PM 839 Views
Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 12:54:16 PM 688 Views
Re: Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 03:18:44 PM 743 Views
A personal question: Cannoli, are you threatened by a powerful woman? - 30/10/2009 07:13:30 PM 817 Views
Obviously. - 31/10/2009 05:37:52 AM 701 Views
Well... - 31/10/2009 05:56:56 AM 665 Views
Countries are real, normal and natural things. The White Tower has no proven value. - 31/10/2009 06:52:48 AM 747 Views
Tar Valon is a nation - 31/10/2009 09:20:43 AM 732 Views
The "Elaida's election was illegal because of Black Ajah Sitters" is really an absurd argument - 01/11/2009 12:06:32 AM 798 Views
It wasn't absurd. Just clever... - 01/11/2009 03:33:22 AM 820 Views
I wasn't saying the rebels had no cause for rebellion. Just that the election *was* legal. - 01/11/2009 10:38:59 AM 824 Views
Hmm..... - 06/11/2009 04:18:14 PM 674 Views
I take it she'll carefully avoid bringing up the war vote, then. *NM* - 08/11/2009 12:47:21 AM 315 Views
Not a problem... - 08/11/2009 06:17:39 AM 741 Views
Are you blinded by a pair of teats? - 31/10/2009 07:17:44 AM 909 Views
Re: Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen - 30/10/2009 11:38:24 PM 832 Views
The harbor chain incident was no less stupid because it helped her - 31/10/2009 05:40:20 AM 685 Views
It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 07:18:42 AM 819 Views
*snort* *NM* - 31/10/2009 07:19:49 AM 437 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 09:28:16 AM 804 Views
Don't expect rationality from Cannoli... - 31/10/2009 02:01:45 PM 866 Views
Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 01:07:06 AM 838 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 04:30:21 AM 832 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 08:41:58 AM 783 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 05/11/2009 02:40:16 AM 756 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 01/11/2009 12:31:10 AM 736 Views
I have one question - 01/11/2009 07:12:23 AM 775 Views
Capture, NOT kill, and she herself said the sa'angreal made that impossible. - 01/11/2009 07:59:44 AM 767 Views
Capture OR kill - 01/11/2009 09:12:08 AM 812 Views
Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 05:57:54 AM 720 Views
Re: Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 11:01:54 AM 709 Views
Events do seem to suggest otherwise. *NM* - 31/10/2009 04:40:42 PM 448 Views
I don't agree with all of that, but yes, Egwene's successes are a little too much. - 31/10/2009 04:30:32 PM 821 Views
I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills - 01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM 848 Views
I see Cannoll is still going strong about Egwene... - 01/11/2009 08:40:17 PM 771 Views
There were a few instances in the book where Egwene really bothered me. - 02/11/2009 12:54:10 AM 717 Views
Egwene's always been a hypocrite - 02/11/2009 02:06:58 PM 903 Views

Reply to Message