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I disagree ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM
But in that case everyones actions are meaningless, Rand might aswell go to Illian docks and make himself available to sailors for the "good" stuff.
Sure, he could if he wanted to. However, it is important to remember that even though everyone's actions are meaningless in the big picture, they matter to the characters themselves.

We know the Dark One doesn't win, otherwise it would be a rubbish story.
It would depend on how it was done. Sometimes having the bad guys win can make for a marvelous ending.

You have to look at these things in a relative way, important to the story, not the paradoxical universe that could never happen and is just the figment of someones imagination.
First of all, I have to do nothing of the sort. Secondly the "paradoxical universe" that I was talking about is the same as the "real" one that you are talking about. It is also still just the figment of someone's (in this case, Robert Jordan's) imagination.

You're trying to argue philosophy (a poor excuse for actual science) with the wrong person. Without Moiraine the DO would have Rand and would be free and have won, end of story.
Science is a philosophy, but philosophy is more than science. Philosophy is the study of thought.

Also, you're wrong. Rand is ta'veren. The Pattern spun him out for a purpose, and it gives him what he needs to accomplish that purpose. It gave him Moiraine, and yes, she helped him. A little anyway, at first.

If she hadn't been there, someone else would have picked up the slack, and Rand still would have been fine. You have argued that that argument is invalid; that even if someone else could have done what Moiraine did, she is the one who actually did it. By this logic, Master Hightower is one of the most important people in the fight against the Shadow. He took everyone on the first ferry trip as you will recall. Without him, Rand and Moiraine and everyone else never would have made it out of the Two Rivers. Pretty silly huh?

I also need to point out that in every book except the Eye of the World, Moiraine's plans and goals are just plain wrong, and more often than not would play directly into the Dark One's hands. For the vast majority of the series, Rand succeeds in spite of Moiraine, not because of her.
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Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 1462 Views
Nyneave wins hands down - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 727 Views
Nyneave has done more - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 690 Views
Nynaeve! - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 648 Views
I'd say Mat - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 711 Views
are you sure? - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 739 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 729 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 921 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 649 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 313 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 696 Views
Immaterial. - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 567 Views
It has to be Moiraine - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 761 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 821 Views
So you think the story would have panned out - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 585 Views
None. *NM* - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 302 Views
That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 636 Views
Re: That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 578 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 596 Views
All of them - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 709 Views
Those were only visions - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 599 Views
They may have only been visions... - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 653 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 601 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 738 Views
That all goes without saying - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 520 Views
I disagree - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 622 Views
Re: I disagree - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 613 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 574 Views
Does that mean he'd win? - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 609 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 555 Views
Not really what I was arguing. - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 579 Views
Good points - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 674 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 304 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 834 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 708 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 605 Views
That is true for most people if not all - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 626 Views
He's got a point though... - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 686 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 587 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 291 Views
Ishamael/Moridin - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 845 Views
Good call - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 671 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 736 Views
You make it sound very simple - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 660 Views
No - it is very simple - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 637 Views
Not necessarily- - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 640 Views
surely a draw meant resealing - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 581 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 684 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 753 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 721 Views

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