Active Users:894 Time:24/02/2025 02:03:39 AM
I disagree ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM
But in that case everyones actions are meaningless, Rand might aswell go to Illian docks and make himself available to sailors for the "good" stuff.
Sure, he could if he wanted to. However, it is important to remember that even though everyone's actions are meaningless in the big picture, they matter to the characters themselves.

We know the Dark One doesn't win, otherwise it would be a rubbish story.
It would depend on how it was done. Sometimes having the bad guys win can make for a marvelous ending.

You have to look at these things in a relative way, important to the story, not the paradoxical universe that could never happen and is just the figment of someones imagination.
First of all, I have to do nothing of the sort. Secondly the "paradoxical universe" that I was talking about is the same as the "real" one that you are talking about. It is also still just the figment of someone's (in this case, Robert Jordan's) imagination.

You're trying to argue philosophy (a poor excuse for actual science) with the wrong person. Without Moiraine the DO would have Rand and would be free and have won, end of story.
Science is a philosophy, but philosophy is more than science. Philosophy is the study of thought.

Also, you're wrong. Rand is ta'veren. The Pattern spun him out for a purpose, and it gives him what he needs to accomplish that purpose. It gave him Moiraine, and yes, she helped him. A little anyway, at first.

If she hadn't been there, someone else would have picked up the slack, and Rand still would have been fine. You have argued that that argument is invalid; that even if someone else could have done what Moiraine did, she is the one who actually did it. By this logic, Master Hightower is one of the most important people in the fight against the Shadow. He took everyone on the first ferry trip as you will recall. Without him, Rand and Moiraine and everyone else never would have made it out of the Two Rivers. Pretty silly huh?

I also need to point out that in every book except the Eye of the World, Moiraine's plans and goals are just plain wrong, and more often than not would play directly into the Dark One's hands. For the vast majority of the series, Rand succeeds in spite of Moiraine, not because of her.
Reply to message
Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 1539 Views
Nyneave wins hands down - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 797 Views
Nyneave has done more - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 770 Views
Nynaeve! - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 717 Views
I'd say Mat - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 795 Views
are you sure? - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 818 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 784 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 1006 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 718 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 343 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 768 Views
Immaterial. - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 633 Views
It has to be Moiraine - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 820 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 894 Views
So you think the story would have panned out - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 650 Views
None. *NM* - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 333 Views
That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 705 Views
Re: That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 652 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 659 Views
All of them - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 783 Views
Those were only visions - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 677 Views
They may have only been visions... - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 720 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 666 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 797 Views
That all goes without saying - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 588 Views
I disagree - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 690 Views
Re: I disagree - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 681 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 644 Views
Does that mean he'd win? - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 673 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 621 Views
Not really what I was arguing. - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 643 Views
Good points - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 748 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 332 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 914 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 777 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 685 Views
That is true for most people if not all - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 698 Views
He's got a point though... - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 753 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 655 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 327 Views
Ishamael/Moridin - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 916 Views
Good call - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 735 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 823 Views
You make it sound very simple - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 737 Views
No - it is very simple - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 701 Views
Not necessarily- - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 710 Views
surely a draw meant resealing - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 649 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 767 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 824 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 788 Views

Reply to Message