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I disagree ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM
But in that case everyones actions are meaningless, Rand might aswell go to Illian docks and make himself available to sailors for the "good" stuff.
Sure, he could if he wanted to. However, it is important to remember that even though everyone's actions are meaningless in the big picture, they matter to the characters themselves.

We know the Dark One doesn't win, otherwise it would be a rubbish story.
It would depend on how it was done. Sometimes having the bad guys win can make for a marvelous ending.

You have to look at these things in a relative way, important to the story, not the paradoxical universe that could never happen and is just the figment of someones imagination.
First of all, I have to do nothing of the sort. Secondly the "paradoxical universe" that I was talking about is the same as the "real" one that you are talking about. It is also still just the figment of someone's (in this case, Robert Jordan's) imagination.

You're trying to argue philosophy (a poor excuse for actual science) with the wrong person. Without Moiraine the DO would have Rand and would be free and have won, end of story.
Science is a philosophy, but philosophy is more than science. Philosophy is the study of thought.

Also, you're wrong. Rand is ta'veren. The Pattern spun him out for a purpose, and it gives him what he needs to accomplish that purpose. It gave him Moiraine, and yes, she helped him. A little anyway, at first.

If she hadn't been there, someone else would have picked up the slack, and Rand still would have been fine. You have argued that that argument is invalid; that even if someone else could have done what Moiraine did, she is the one who actually did it. By this logic, Master Hightower is one of the most important people in the fight against the Shadow. He took everyone on the first ferry trip as you will recall. Without him, Rand and Moiraine and everyone else never would have made it out of the Two Rivers. Pretty silly huh?

I also need to point out that in every book except the Eye of the World, Moiraine's plans and goals are just plain wrong, and more often than not would play directly into the Dark One's hands. For the vast majority of the series, Rand succeeds in spite of Moiraine, not because of her.
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Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 1756 Views
Nyneave wins hands down - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 1015 Views
Nyneave has done more - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 951 Views
Nynaeve! - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 891 Views
I'd say Mat - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 963 Views
are you sure? - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 981 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 949 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 1165 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 920 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 423 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 933 Views
Immaterial. - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 810 Views
It has to be Moiraine - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 976 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 1121 Views
So you think the story would have panned out - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 830 Views
None. *NM* - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 408 Views
That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 892 Views
Re: That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 828 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 836 Views
All of them - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 932 Views
Those were only visions - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 845 Views
They may have only been visions... - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 935 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 837 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 988 Views
That all goes without saying - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 762 Views
I disagree - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 908 Views
Re: I disagree - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 863 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 852 Views
Does that mean he'd win? - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 861 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 810 Views
Not really what I was arguing. - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 832 Views
Good points - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 920 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 419 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 1098 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 994 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 862 Views
That is true for most people if not all - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 881 Views
He's got a point though... - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 939 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 808 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 402 Views
Ishamael/Moridin - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 1132 Views
Good call - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 923 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 1035 Views
You make it sound very simple - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 952 Views
No - it is very simple - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 911 Views
Not necessarily- - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 899 Views
surely a draw meant resealing - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 812 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 946 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 1009 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 959 Views

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