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Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM
Not actual alternate realities.

I'm right in thinking Rand was himself in these, not watching it as a 3rd party, definitely didn't actually happen.
The portal stones are gateways to the worlds of infinite possibility. Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere in one of those alternate realities. So because those visions were things that could have happened, somewhere they do happen.

A possible outcome of this is the DO winning, you're over thinking it, if the DO had won in any dimension then nothing would have happened because it would have been undone.
Yes, now you're starting to see the problem. The Dark One, in fact, cannot win. There is a possibility that the Dark One remains imprisoned in some world, so therefore he remains imprisoned in all worlds. This does seem, at first glance, to be more of a paradox than it really is. The Dark One is actually imprisoned outside the Pattern, which all worlds that are or that could be are a part of, so there it is actually the same prison that is referenced in each world.

As you say, it does seem like there should be a possibility of the Dark One winning in some worlds, in which case he would win in them all. Ordinarily I would agree; there really shouldn't be any exceptions to infinite possibility. Illogically, that isn't the case though. Look at the Dark One's stated intentions: he wants to break time and undo creation. Because one Pattern contains all of the various infinite worlds, unraveling it in one would cause similar annihilation in all of the others. Clearly, that hasn't happened.

There are two possibilities I can see for this. The first is that the Dark One simply cannot ever achieve his victory. The other, which is my personal preference, is that when the Dark One does win, he still loses.

Let's take a look at a hypothetical victory for the shadow. The Dark One breaks free of his prison, breaks the wheel of time, and unravels the Pattern. Creation is undone as if it never was, and chaos reigns. Almost. We would still be left with two opposing forces, the Dark One and the Creator. And we have never been given any indication that the Dark One can actually challenge the Creator. So, the Dark One wins and establishes a multiverse of nothingness. The Creator would most likely respond by imprisoning the Dark One to prevent his interference. Then he would live up to his name and create something. So the cycle repeats.

So there you have it. The Dark One can't win, and if he ever does win he still loses. It's all actually quite simple. I would say that it should be intuitively obvious to any brilliant but not entirely sane philosopher, such as Elan Morin Tedronai, Herid Fel, or myself.

I'm not quite sure what you meant by over-thinking though... ;)

I tend to think this is the one that matters, the others are just possibilities, "this is where it's at" so to speak.
I'm sure people in those other realities think that theirs is the only one that matters too. :P
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Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 1461 Views
Nyneave wins hands down - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 727 Views
Nyneave has done more - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 690 Views
Nynaeve! - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 648 Views
I'd say Mat - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 711 Views
are you sure? - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 738 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 729 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 920 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 649 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 313 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 696 Views
Immaterial. - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 567 Views
It has to be Moiraine - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 761 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 821 Views
So you think the story would have panned out - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 584 Views
None. *NM* - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 302 Views
That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 636 Views
Re: That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 578 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 596 Views
All of them - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 709 Views
Those were only visions - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 598 Views
They may have only been visions... - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 653 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 601 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 738 Views
That all goes without saying - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 520 Views
I disagree - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 621 Views
Re: I disagree - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 612 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 574 Views
Does that mean he'd win? - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 609 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 555 Views
Not really what I was arguing. - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 579 Views
Good points - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 674 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 303 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 833 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 708 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 605 Views
That is true for most people if not all - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 626 Views
He's got a point though... - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 686 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 587 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 291 Views
Ishamael/Moridin - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 845 Views
Good call - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 671 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 736 Views
You make it sound very simple - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 659 Views
No - it is very simple - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 637 Views
Not necessarily- - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 640 Views
surely a draw meant resealing - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 581 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 684 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 752 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 721 Views

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