Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere"
ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM
Not actual alternate realities.
I'm right in thinking Rand was himself in these, not watching it as a 3rd party, definitely didn't actually happen.
The portal stones are gateways to the worlds of infinite possibility. Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere in one of those alternate realities. So because those visions were things that could have happened, somewhere they do happen.A possible outcome of this is the DO winning, you're over thinking it, if the DO had won in any dimension then nothing would have happened because it would have been undone.
Yes, now you're starting to see the problem. The Dark One, in fact, cannot win. There is a possibility that the Dark One remains imprisoned in some world, so therefore he remains imprisoned in all worlds. This does seem, at first glance, to be more of a paradox than it really is. The Dark One is actually imprisoned outside the Pattern, which all worlds that are or that could be are a part of, so there it is actually the same prison that is referenced in each world.As you say, it does seem like there should be a possibility of the Dark One winning in some worlds, in which case he would win in them all. Ordinarily I would agree; there really shouldn't be any exceptions to infinite possibility. Illogically, that isn't the case though. Look at the Dark One's stated intentions: he wants to break time and undo creation. Because one Pattern contains all of the various infinite worlds, unraveling it in one would cause similar annihilation in all of the others. Clearly, that hasn't happened.
There are two possibilities I can see for this. The first is that the Dark One simply cannot ever achieve his victory. The other, which is my personal preference, is that when the Dark One does win, he still loses.
Let's take a look at a hypothetical victory for the shadow. The Dark One breaks free of his prison, breaks the wheel of time, and unravels the Pattern. Creation is undone as if it never was, and chaos reigns. Almost. We would still be left with two opposing forces, the Dark One and the Creator. And we have never been given any indication that the Dark One can actually challenge the Creator. So, the Dark One wins and establishes a multiverse of nothingness. The Creator would most likely respond by imprisoning the Dark One to prevent his interference. Then he would live up to his name and create something. So the cycle repeats.
So there you have it. The Dark One can't win, and if he ever does win he still loses. It's all actually quite simple. I would say that it should be intuitively obvious to any brilliant but not entirely sane philosopher, such as Elan Morin Tedronai, Herid Fel, or myself.
I'm not quite sure what you meant by over-thinking though...
I tend to think this is the one that matters, the others are just possibilities, "this is where it's at" so to speak.
I'm sure people in those other realities think that theirs is the only one that matters too.
Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion)
17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM
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I'd say Mat
17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM
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are you sure?
17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM
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Not to downplay Nynaeve
17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM
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Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow
17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM
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Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow
18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM
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believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM*
18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM
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It has to be Moiraine
17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM
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Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither.
17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM
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So you think the story would have panned out
17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM
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That's highly subjective
17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM
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I think you know exactly what I mean.
17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM
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All of them
18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM
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Those were only visions
18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM
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They may have only been visions...
18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM
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"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere"
18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM
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Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere"
18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM
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It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold
18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM
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Does that mean he'd win?
18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM
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IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win.
18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM
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Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion)
17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM
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Someone needs to re-adjust their meds
18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM
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I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him
18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM
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That is true for most people if not all
18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM
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He's got a point though...
21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM
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"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101.
21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM
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Ishamael/Moridin
17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM
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Good call
17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM
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Not to mention I think he's more interested in self preservation at this moment
18/10/2009 07:18:28 AM
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lol It goes to show that even when you think you're doing evil, the Pattern makes it good. *NM*
18/10/2009 06:25:08 PM
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You make it sound very simple
18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM
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No - it is very simple
19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM
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I'm going with Nynaeve.
18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM
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