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Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM
Not actual alternate realities.

I'm right in thinking Rand was himself in these, not watching it as a 3rd party, definitely didn't actually happen.
The portal stones are gateways to the worlds of infinite possibility. Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere in one of those alternate realities. So because those visions were things that could have happened, somewhere they do happen.

A possible outcome of this is the DO winning, you're over thinking it, if the DO had won in any dimension then nothing would have happened because it would have been undone.
Yes, now you're starting to see the problem. The Dark One, in fact, cannot win. There is a possibility that the Dark One remains imprisoned in some world, so therefore he remains imprisoned in all worlds. This does seem, at first glance, to be more of a paradox than it really is. The Dark One is actually imprisoned outside the Pattern, which all worlds that are or that could be are a part of, so there it is actually the same prison that is referenced in each world.

As you say, it does seem like there should be a possibility of the Dark One winning in some worlds, in which case he would win in them all. Ordinarily I would agree; there really shouldn't be any exceptions to infinite possibility. Illogically, that isn't the case though. Look at the Dark One's stated intentions: he wants to break time and undo creation. Because one Pattern contains all of the various infinite worlds, unraveling it in one would cause similar annihilation in all of the others. Clearly, that hasn't happened.

There are two possibilities I can see for this. The first is that the Dark One simply cannot ever achieve his victory. The other, which is my personal preference, is that when the Dark One does win, he still loses.

Let's take a look at a hypothetical victory for the shadow. The Dark One breaks free of his prison, breaks the wheel of time, and unravels the Pattern. Creation is undone as if it never was, and chaos reigns. Almost. We would still be left with two opposing forces, the Dark One and the Creator. And we have never been given any indication that the Dark One can actually challenge the Creator. So, the Dark One wins and establishes a multiverse of nothingness. The Creator would most likely respond by imprisoning the Dark One to prevent his interference. Then he would live up to his name and create something. So the cycle repeats.

So there you have it. The Dark One can't win, and if he ever does win he still loses. It's all actually quite simple. I would say that it should be intuitively obvious to any brilliant but not entirely sane philosopher, such as Elan Morin Tedronai, Herid Fel, or myself.

I'm not quite sure what you meant by over-thinking though... ;)

I tend to think this is the one that matters, the others are just possibilities, "this is where it's at" so to speak.
I'm sure people in those other realities think that theirs is the only one that matters too. :P
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Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 1472 Views
Nyneave wins hands down - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 740 Views
Nyneave has done more - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 707 Views
Nynaeve! - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 658 Views
I'd say Mat - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 726 Views
are you sure? - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 746 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 741 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 934 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 660 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 321 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 707 Views
Immaterial. - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 579 Views
It has to be Moiraine - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 772 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 829 Views
So you think the story would have panned out - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 591 Views
None. *NM* - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 308 Views
That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 648 Views
Re: That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 589 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 608 Views
All of them - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 725 Views
Those were only visions - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 614 Views
They may have only been visions... - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 663 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 610 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 747 Views
That all goes without saying - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 535 Views
I disagree - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 629 Views
Re: I disagree - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 622 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 584 Views
Does that mean he'd win? - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 624 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 566 Views
Not really what I was arguing. - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 590 Views
Good points - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 687 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 309 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 845 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 719 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 619 Views
That is true for most people if not all - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 638 Views
He's got a point though... - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 699 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 602 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 298 Views
Ishamael/Moridin - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 858 Views
Good call - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 683 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 758 Views
You make it sound very simple - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 671 Views
No - it is very simple - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 646 Views
Not necessarily- - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 652 Views
surely a draw meant resealing - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 590 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 698 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 768 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 730 Views

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