Someone needs to re-adjust their meds...
I am guessing it is me.
I am not quite sure why either. My best guess is that the DO had to refocus on rebuilding his army. In any case, the return of spring IS an indicator that it was a bad blow to the DO.
Certainly, I could have moved some of the killing of Forsaken down AND moved a few things up. I considered it, but I felt that it really didn't matter that much. Its not as if we were keeping exact score. One case in point is that you mentioned that removing Lanfear from the scene should not be considered to be as important since she has returned; yet Moiraine's trips through the rings proved otherwise. No less then the fate of the world depended on Moiraine's sacrifice. I also considered demoting Sammael for the reason you stated, except that what was most important was that Rand destroyed his power base in Illian.
Or maybe I didn't want to drag this post out by splitting every single hair. (Then again your liable to be right here. )
There is some difference of opinion here. Again I am trying to paint a rough picture and keep it simple. Rand's rescue at Dumai's well most likely did involve one portion of the Shadow. That does not mean it wasn't an important event. (See Sidious' post below for someone who believes that the Shadow itself has been its own worst enemy.) The first battle at Tear was when Rand took Callandor, etc., which had nothing to do with Semirhage.
How is forming the rebel Aes Sedai army a blow against the Shadow, when the Shadow has been urging on its use, and been disappointed in the failure of Elaida to match it. Breaking the Shaido made them accept Sammael's aid and work for his chaos. Sevanna had no intention of summoning him if she had been successful at Dumai's Wells, but changed her mind as a fall-back plan during the flight of the Shaido. Ther eis no proof that marching the rebels against the Tower was anything but favorably received by the Shadow. Delana was clearly under orders to support Egwene's declaration of war.
I needed to be more specific about breaking the Shaido. In my opinion Perrin broke the Shaido at Malden. Rand's attack at Cairhien weakened them. Taim hurt them at Dumai's well. Sammael dispersed them. But even after that the Shaido had 200 channellers supporting a huge and growing military power. Perrin broke them at Malden. As I stated above complicity by the shadow does not mean it was not a blow against the shadow. It is reason to demote some events. I didn't feel it was worth the effort though.
Why not? In any event, he had NOTHING to do with saving Rand or breaking the Shaido. Rand escaped well before Perrin showed up, and any time he felt himself (or especially Min) to be in the slightest danger, he would have been Skimming out as fast as he could. The single factor that enabled him to escape was the Shaido attack forcing his captors to divert their attention from him. You could argue that Perrin's efforts hurt that, because if their timing had been different, and forced the Shaido to turn away, the Aes Sedai would not have been pressed so hard, and would have held Rand more tightly! As for breaking the Shaido, he was opposed to Rand's command, and was revolted by the Asha'man. If you refer to his destruction of the gathering at Malden, that had nothing to do with the Shadow, however remarkable an accomplishment on his part. In fact, he facilitated the Seanchan triumph and helped them in clearing a major nuisance from their lands, making them better able to hurt the forces of the Light and less desperate so more likely to give Rand a hard time in making his truce. If they were struggling to fight the Shaido while pressing their conquests, then Rand's truce would have seemed more attractive. There is no proof that the Shaido were anything for the Shadow beyond the unwitting dupes of the now-dead Sammael. In fact, the ONLY known Shaido Darkfriend was among Rand's followers, which makes sense, for the same reason the Shadow has no one among the Kin - they want people in position to strike at the leadership, not exiles and outcasts who will fight the Shadow's enemies of their own volition.
The Shaido helped the Lord of Chaos rule. Perrin cleared up that mess. Sure that mostly helped the Seanchen. It also gave them 200 chanelers. I will concede your point about Perrin not rescuing Rand from the AS. His presence probably help rescue Rand from Taim, though. At the end of the day I agree, that Perrin's accomplishments are not that great as what people make them out to be. I have seen too many people list Mat and Perrin as being the next most important characters despite the fact that they have done less then the female major characters. In not wanting to give fodder to rabid ta'veren fanatics, I conceded their points not realizing that I would be giving fodder for a rabid fanatic of another sort.
No less than putting the rebel army of Salidar into play or destroying the Shaido at Malden! Mat thwarted Semirhage's dupes who would have killed Tuon as an imposter and Couladin who was set on his path with Asmodean's help.
Killing Couladin did nothing. Sevanna was the true power. It accomplished nothing. Sevanna lost no followers other then the small number that Couladin had. As far as thwarting the dupes, I already mentioned that. So he killed a few followers of Elbar. More important is the fact, though, that Elbar's head was able to be brought back to implicate Suroth. In any case, though I wasn't that explicit, is that I consider Mat's saving of Tuon to be in par with at least the events of Malden, as I include it under bringing the Seanchen to the lightside. (I considered even pushing that up a category. In the end I did not because I didn't want to write a book explaining exactly why this is in this category and this is not.
I do read sometimes.
Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day!
Right back at ya.
I have already discussed above how according to Moiraines journey through the rings that Moiraine's sacrifice was necessary. Personally, I believe that if Rand would have went alone to battle Rhavin, he would have died alone. We can discuss ifs and buts all night, but...
And this would be the second time.
It should not surprise anyone that I would agree.
Egwene al'Vere gets praise the way Barack Hussein Obama gets Nobel Prizes - entirely on speculation, and statement of intent. And what do you mean "despite what Halima was doing"? Giving Egwene massages? Telling the world that Egwene's rival was a Darkfriend? Halima was NOT trying to split up Egwene's faction, and she was upset at the possibility of their defeat, enough to plan a rescue of Ewgene! This is like crediting France for their stout defense of the Pyrenees in 1940.
You even get on my case when I obviously agree with you! (That was why I said 'But for now..'
I don't know for certain what Halima was up to, but it wasn't good. This is another case where I felt that being a little overgenerous would not hurt any. On the other hand, IF Egwene DOES save the WT, etc., I do hope that certain people will admit that that would put her on par with other major characters. If she fails to do any of these things then I would happily join the ranks of those saying that Egwene is a worthless main character.
Only madmen (and madwomen) are fully consistent in their beliefs. I believe that both Itulralde's raid and Perrin's breaking of the Shaido were great events and hurt the Shadow. For one Itulralde's strike contributed to Mat's escape. Further Perrin's cooperation with the Seanchen certainly helped the Seanchen to relate more with the rest of the continent.
In the end one of the greatest feats that will help the light side (if they accomplish it) is the conversion of the Seanchen from a force of chaos to a force for the light. Many of the events I included such as blowing the Horn of Valere are only on this list because they further that goal in their own way. Blowing a horn for instance really is not that great of an achievement.
It doesn't surprise me at all that such a 'bizarre' set of rankings comes to the 'right' conclusion. I am a physicist by trade and I often see this sort of thing happen. I have done enough hand waving back of the envelope type calculations to know that they work a LOT more often then one might think at first. With enough random factors it really doesn't matter that much how the lists were organized. Twenty different people can come up with 20 different lists and as long as they are modestly unbiased they will reach virtually the same conclusion. This is the very reason I did not split as many hairs as you seem to want to do. Why bother the only result is that you give people MORE hairs to split; worst the post would be WAY too long to read. This one was bad enough as it is.
I think I should go check my medicine cabinet again.
RabidWombat
I am guessing it is me.
Hard hits directly to the DO
1. Cleansing of Saidin
2. Bowl of the Winds
3. Rand destroying army of darkness in Tarwin's Gap (ushering in spring.)
I would not place that army's destruction so high. It was just one army, after all, and Ba'alzamon seemed indifferent to the loss. I agree that whatever brought the spring would have been a hard blwo, possibly deserving of its place here, but there is no proof that it was the army that did it. For all we know, it could have been something the Green Man did when he destroyed Ba'althamel, or when Rand used the Eye of the World, or when he struck down Ba'alzamon.1. Cleansing of Saidin
2. Bowl of the Winds
3. Rand destroying army of darkness in Tarwin's Gap (ushering in spring.)
I am not quite sure why either. My best guess is that the DO had to refocus on rebuilding his army. In any case, the return of spring IS an indicator that it was a bad blow to the DO.
We don't know enough about Taim's faction to ascertain what the Shadow has invested in them to determine how great a loss they are.
In addition, the loss of any of the Forsaken who has been brought back should be scored lower. What was better for the Shadow? Lanfear running around free murdering capable Darkfriends for telling her Rand was "cheating" on her, conspiring to empower the Dragon Reborn and capture one of the Forsaken and learn the secrets he held, and plotting to depose the Dark One with the Choedan Kal, or Cyndane, leashed and obediant in the service of the Nae'blis? How is Sammael's loss a major blow when the Nae'blis himself conspired at it? How can you rank the losses of Lanfear and Asmodean equally, when the former was responsible for effecting the loss of the latter?
In addition, the loss of any of the Forsaken who has been brought back should be scored lower. What was better for the Shadow? Lanfear running around free murdering capable Darkfriends for telling her Rand was "cheating" on her, conspiring to empower the Dragon Reborn and capture one of the Forsaken and learn the secrets he held, and plotting to depose the Dark One with the Choedan Kal, or Cyndane, leashed and obediant in the service of the Nae'blis? How is Sammael's loss a major blow when the Nae'blis himself conspired at it? How can you rank the losses of Lanfear and Asmodean equally, when the former was responsible for effecting the loss of the latter?
Certainly, I could have moved some of the killing of Forsaken down AND moved a few things up. I considered it, but I felt that it really didn't matter that much. Its not as if we were keeping exact score. One case in point is that you mentioned that removing Lanfear from the scene should not be considered to be as important since she has returned; yet Moiraine's trips through the rings proved otherwise. No less then the fate of the world depended on Moiraine's sacrifice. I also considered demoting Sammael for the reason you stated, except that what was most important was that Rand destroyed his power base in Illian.
You have clearly not thought this through very well!
Or maybe I didn't want to drag this post out by splitting every single hair. (Then again your liable to be right here. )
Small hit but still felt (major plot of shadow foiled)
1. Battle over Falme
2. First battle in Tear
3. Rand rescued at Dumai's wells
4. Halima revealed and forced to flee
5. Seanchen converted from menace to ally with shadow (in future.)
6. Anyone who saves Rand from shadow
7. (Future?) Maseema's reign of chaos is finally broken
These are not that much inferior to the loss of ineffective Forsaken or the removal of obstructive minions from the Shadow's organization! As for points 2 & 3, they both happened with the aid and full contrivance of the Shadow! Someone higher-ranking than SEMIRHAGE ordered a rescue force be sent to help Rand in the first battle in the Stone! Taim, whose fall you think will be a major blow to the Shadow, was the most responsible for the extraordinary outcome of Dumai's Wells. Without him, Rand might still have escaped, but there would have been no defeat of the Shaido.1. Battle over Falme
2. First battle in Tear
3. Rand rescued at Dumai's wells
4. Halima revealed and forced to flee
5. Seanchen converted from menace to ally with shadow (in future.)
6. Anyone who saves Rand from shadow
7. (Future?) Maseema's reign of chaos is finally broken
There is some difference of opinion here. Again I am trying to paint a rough picture and keep it simple. Rand's rescue at Dumai's well most likely did involve one portion of the Shadow. That does not mean it wasn't an important event. (See Sidious' post below for someone who believes that the Shadow itself has been its own worst enemy.) The first battle at Tear was when Rand took Callandor, etc., which had nothing to do with Semirhage.
Glancing blow
1. Breaking the Shaido
2. Forming rebel AS army
3. Forming Legion of Dragon
4. Forming Band of the Red Hand
5. Controlling Andor and building up its armies
6. Great Escape of seafolk
7. Getting rebel AS to march against WT
8. Forming a large army or disrupting a DF or BA plot or exposing or killing BA or DF Ashaman.
1. Breaking the Shaido
2. Forming rebel AS army
3. Forming Legion of Dragon
4. Forming Band of the Red Hand
5. Controlling Andor and building up its armies
6. Great Escape of seafolk
7. Getting rebel AS to march against WT
8. Forming a large army or disrupting a DF or BA plot or exposing or killing BA or DF Ashaman.
How is forming the rebel Aes Sedai army a blow against the Shadow, when the Shadow has been urging on its use, and been disappointed in the failure of Elaida to match it. Breaking the Shaido made them accept Sammael's aid and work for his chaos. Sevanna had no intention of summoning him if she had been successful at Dumai's Wells, but changed her mind as a fall-back plan during the flight of the Shaido. Ther eis no proof that marching the rebels against the Tower was anything but favorably received by the Shadow. Delana was clearly under orders to support Egwene's declaration of war.
I needed to be more specific about breaking the Shaido. In my opinion Perrin broke the Shaido at Malden. Rand's attack at Cairhien weakened them. Taim hurt them at Dumai's well. Sammael dispersed them. But even after that the Shaido had 200 channellers supporting a huge and growing military power. Perrin broke them at Malden. As I stated above complicity by the shadow does not mean it was not a blow against the shadow. It is reason to demote some events. I didn't feel it was worth the effort though.
With all of that grunt work out of the way. Here are the major candidates.
Perrin
Saved Rand at Dumai's wells and Broke the Shaido. Slowly building an impressive army for the light. Defeating the shadow spawn in the two rivers was impressive but I doubt the shadow cared that much.
Perrin
Saved Rand at Dumai's wells and Broke the Shaido. Slowly building an impressive army for the light. Defeating the shadow spawn in the two rivers was impressive but I doubt the shadow cared that much.
Why not? In any event, he had NOTHING to do with saving Rand or breaking the Shaido. Rand escaped well before Perrin showed up, and any time he felt himself (or especially Min) to be in the slightest danger, he would have been Skimming out as fast as he could. The single factor that enabled him to escape was the Shaido attack forcing his captors to divert their attention from him. You could argue that Perrin's efforts hurt that, because if their timing had been different, and forced the Shaido to turn away, the Aes Sedai would not have been pressed so hard, and would have held Rand more tightly! As for breaking the Shaido, he was opposed to Rand's command, and was revolted by the Asha'man. If you refer to his destruction of the gathering at Malden, that had nothing to do with the Shadow, however remarkable an accomplishment on his part. In fact, he facilitated the Seanchan triumph and helped them in clearing a major nuisance from their lands, making them better able to hurt the forces of the Light and less desperate so more likely to give Rand a hard time in making his truce. If they were struggling to fight the Shaido while pressing their conquests, then Rand's truce would have seemed more attractive. There is no proof that the Shaido were anything for the Shadow beyond the unwitting dupes of the now-dead Sammael. In fact, the ONLY known Shaido Darkfriend was among Rand's followers, which makes sense, for the same reason the Shadow has no one among the Kin - they want people in position to strike at the leadership, not exiles and outcasts who will fight the Shadow's enemies of their own volition.
The Shaido helped the Lord of Chaos rule. Perrin cleared up that mess. Sure that mostly helped the Seanchen. It also gave them 200 chanelers. I will concede your point about Perrin not rescuing Rand from the AS. His presence probably help rescue Rand from Taim, though. At the end of the day I agree, that Perrin's accomplishments are not that great as what people make them out to be. I have seen too many people list Mat and Perrin as being the next most important characters despite the fact that they have done less then the female major characters. In not wanting to give fodder to rabid ta'veren fanatics, I conceded their points not realizing that I would be giving fodder for a rabid fanatic of another sort.
Mat
Blew the horn of valere to delay the Seanchen enough that they could come into play for the side of light and not just cause chaos. Played an important but still incidental role in securing the bowl of the winds. Saved Tuon from Semirhage by kidnapping her. Started the great escape of the seafolk. Started the band of the red hand. Rescued the wondergirls. He also won more then a few battles, but none of them really hurt the shadow that much.
Blew the horn of valere to delay the Seanchen enough that they could come into play for the side of light and not just cause chaos. Played an important but still incidental role in securing the bowl of the winds. Saved Tuon from Semirhage by kidnapping her. Started the great escape of the seafolk. Started the band of the red hand. Rescued the wondergirls. He also won more then a few battles, but none of them really hurt the shadow that much.
No less than putting the rebel army of Salidar into play or destroying the Shaido at Malden! Mat thwarted Semirhage's dupes who would have killed Tuon as an imposter and Couladin who was set on his path with Asmodean's help.
Killing Couladin did nothing. Sevanna was the true power. It accomplished nothing. Sevanna lost no followers other then the small number that Couladin had. As far as thwarting the dupes, I already mentioned that. So he killed a few followers of Elbar. More important is the fact, though, that Elbar's head was able to be brought back to implicate Suroth. In any case, though I wasn't that explicit, is that I consider Mat's saving of Tuon to be in par with at least the events of Malden, as I include it under bringing the Seanchen to the lightside. (I considered even pushing that up a category. In the end I did not because I didn't want to write a book explaining exactly why this is in this category and this is not.
Did you actually read the books, or just a sketchy outline?
I do read sometimes.
Nynaeve
She was involved in TWO of 3 great events that directly hit the shadow. She was a major player in the Bowl of the Winds and a smaller player in the cleansing of Saidin. Further she captured Moghedien and was a major player in destroying Rahvin. Further she was a major player in foiling Semirhage's plan against the Seanchen and in capturing Semirhage. She has captured a BA as well. No other character besides Moiraine and Rand has hurt the forsaken so badly.
She was involved in TWO of 3 great events that directly hit the shadow. She was a major player in the Bowl of the Winds and a smaller player in the cleansing of Saidin. Further she captured Moghedien and was a major player in destroying Rahvin. Further she was a major player in foiling Semirhage's plan against the Seanchen and in capturing Semirhage. She has captured a BA as well. No other character besides Moiraine and Rand has hurt the forsaken so badly.
Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day!
Right back at ya.
Moiraine
Destroyed Bel'al and Lanfear. Saved Rand's life numerous times. Set everything in motion.
Saved it once, aside from some incidental Healing which many people could have done. Bel'al did not want Rand dead yet, and given that Rand was able to kill Bel'al's boss with Callandor, what chance did Bel'al really have of taking down Rand once he did what Bel'al wanted? Also was responsible for Rand BEING in danger in the first place the one time she did save him, since it was only through her insistence that he was even in the same country as the threat in the first place! Without Moiraine demanding they go all the way from the docks, he'd have already been in Andor by the time Lanfear found out, if ever. For all we know she was following him around and only took advantage of Kadere's proximity to question him. And perhaps he would not have thought of Rand & Aviendha if they had not passed in front of him seconds before Lanfear showed up.Destroyed Bel'al and Lanfear. Saved Rand's life numerous times. Set everything in motion.
I have already discussed above how according to Moiraines journey through the rings that Moiraine's sacrifice was necessary. Personally, I believe that if Rand would have went alone to battle Rhavin, he would have died alone. We can discuss ifs and buts all night, but...
Elayne
Major player in the bowl of the winds. (She is perhaps the most important since she set it in motion.) Participated in the capture of Moggy (through her a'dam). Build's up the single largest nations armies and brings it against the DO. (Dyelin or any of the others were too meek to do it.)
Major player in the bowl of the winds. (She is perhaps the most important since she set it in motion.) Participated in the capture of Moggy (through her a'dam). Build's up the single largest nations armies and brings it against the DO. (Dyelin or any of the others were too meek to do it.)
And this would be the second time.
It should not surprise anyone that I would agree.
Egwene
Held the rebel AS together and not at each others throats despite what Halima was doing. Kept the rebels focused on WT. Help organized the rebel army. If she succeeds in organizing the WT and making it stronger then ever against the shadow then she will move up to making a hard blow. But for now...
Held the rebel AS together and not at each others throats despite what Halima was doing. Kept the rebels focused on WT. Help organized the rebel army. If she succeeds in organizing the WT and making it stronger then ever against the shadow then she will move up to making a hard blow. But for now...
Egwene al'Vere gets praise the way Barack Hussein Obama gets Nobel Prizes - entirely on speculation, and statement of intent. And what do you mean "despite what Halima was doing"? Giving Egwene massages? Telling the world that Egwene's rival was a Darkfriend? Halima was NOT trying to split up Egwene's faction, and she was upset at the possibility of their defeat, enough to plan a rescue of Ewgene! This is like crediting France for their stout defense of the Pyrenees in 1940.
You even get on my case when I obviously agree with you! (That was why I said 'But for now..'
I don't know for certain what Halima was up to, but it wasn't good. This is another case where I felt that being a little overgenerous would not hurt any. On the other hand, IF Egwene DOES save the WT, etc., I do hope that certain people will admit that that would put her on par with other major characters. If she fails to do any of these things then I would happily join the ranks of those saying that Egwene is a worthless main character.Itulralde
Struck a major blow against the Seanchen slowing them down until they can be brought into the side of the light.
We'll have to see how this plays out. It could actually turn into a problem between him and Rand. And how can you call stopping the Shaido a good thing that will facilitate the truce, while earlier praising efforts that help them consolidate against the most dangerous forces remaining in the lands they have conquered?Struck a major blow against the Seanchen slowing them down until they can be brought into the side of the light.
Only madmen (and madwomen) are fully consistent in their beliefs. I believe that both Itulralde's raid and Perrin's breaking of the Shaido were great events and hurt the Shadow. For one Itulralde's strike contributed to Mat's escape. Further Perrin's cooperation with the Seanchen certainly helped the Seanchen to relate more with the rest of the continent.
In the end one of the greatest feats that will help the light side (if they accomplish it) is the conversion of the Seanchen from a force of chaos to a force for the light. Many of the events I included such as blowing the Horn of Valere are only on this list because they further that goal in their own way. Blowing a horn for instance really is not that great of an achievement.
I still don't know if there is one main person after Rand, but after this I am leaning more toward Nynaeve then before.
I am surprised for two reasons 1. That you needed all this effort to come to an obvious conclusion and 2. That such a bizarre set of rankings enabled you to come to the right conclusion anyway!It doesn't surprise me at all that such a 'bizarre' set of rankings comes to the 'right' conclusion. I am a physicist by trade and I often see this sort of thing happen. I have done enough hand waving back of the envelope type calculations to know that they work a LOT more often then one might think at first. With enough random factors it really doesn't matter that much how the lists were organized. Twenty different people can come up with 20 different lists and as long as they are modestly unbiased they will reach virtually the same conclusion. This is the very reason I did not split as many hairs as you seem to want to do. Why bother the only result is that you give people MORE hairs to split; worst the post would be WAY too long to read. This one was bad enough as it is.
I think I should go check my medicine cabinet again.
RabidWombat
Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion)
- 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM
1455 Views
I'd say Mat
- 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM
706 Views
are you sure?
- 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM
735 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve
- 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM
722 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow
- 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM
916 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow
- 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM
643 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM*
- 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM
313 Views
It has to be Moiraine
- 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM
754 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither.
- 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM
813 Views
So you think the story would have panned out
- 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM
579 Views
That's highly subjective
- 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM
631 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean.
- 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM
590 Views
All of them 
- 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM
706 Views
- 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM
706 Views
Those were only visions
- 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM
591 Views
They may have only been visions...
- 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM
649 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere"
- 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM
596 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere"
- 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM
732 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold
- 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM
571 Views
Does that mean he'd win?
- 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM
599 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win.
- 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM
551 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion)
- 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM
828 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds
- 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM
704 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him
- 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM
596 Views
That is true for most people if not all
- 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM
621 Views
He's got a point though...
- 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM
679 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101.
- 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM
583 Views
Ishamael/Moridin
- 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM
837 Views
Good call
- 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM
664 Views
Not to mention I think he's more interested in self preservation at this moment
- 18/10/2009 07:18:28 AM
532 Views
lol It goes to show that even when you think you're doing evil, the Pattern makes it good. *NM*
- 18/10/2009 06:25:08 PM
279 Views
You make it sound very simple
- 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM
653 Views
No - it is very simple
- 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM
631 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve.
- 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM
678 Views