Precision weaving is merely the ability to weave sharp and focussed weaves, and there is no evidence that anyone weaker than Egwene can do it, and we've seen a considerable amount of weaving from channelers of other classes. There is quite a lot of evidence that strong channelers are capable of these weaves. A precision weave is focussed, and similar to the focussed energy of a circle - which is why strong channelers can sever without a circle.
I don't think Aes Sedai can sever channelers unaided. They need to make a circle - maybe not thirteen - but definitely more on. I don't believe that any of those males were gentled by single sisters.
I don't think Aes Sedai can sever channelers unaided. They need to make a circle - maybe not thirteen - but definitely more on. I don't believe that any of those males were gentled by single sisters.
But you don't really have evidence to back it up. It seems unlikely that groups or like-minded Red Sisters could all be gathered together to perform an illegal gentling very easily. Such things would be noticed, notably by the Tower itself.
Nynaeve says that the sharpness of the shield is the key to making it a stilling weave - it's actually a normal shield without that, as she demonstrated with Moghedien. Therefore considering I believe that precision weaving is linked to strength in the power, and considering the stilling weave is defined as a keen-edged shield, I think that only powerful channelers can pull it off.
Some examples of precision weaving...
1. Asmodean - TSR (The Traps of Rhuidean) … “Lying there , he stared up at three bright ribbons … Hard as steel , sharp enough to make a razor seem a feather …”
2. Cyndane - WH (With the Choedan Kal) … “A razor-thin flow of Air sliced the fellow’s beard in two as it took off his head …”
3. Moghedien - TSR (Into the Palace) … “Before thought she struck out , weaving a hammer-hard flow of Air to smash that face. In an instant the glow of saidar surrounded the other woman … and Nynaeve’s flow was sliced razor clean …”
4. Moghedien - TSR (Into the Palace) … “For a moment she could only stare. One of the figures , an odd animal shaped roughly like a pig but with a large round snout and feet as wide as its thick legs , stood where the seal had … It was not really there; the thing was woven from Air and Fire, in flows so minute they made cobwebs seem cables. Even concentrating she could barely see them. She doubted if Liandrin and the other Black sisters could have …”
5. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “The knife-sharp shield that Egwene had used to still Amico Nagoyin sprang into being …”
6. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “the Forsaken struck with a complex weave of Spirit streaked by Water and Air. Nynaeve had no idea what it was meant to do; frantically she tried to cut it as she had seen the other woman do , with a keen-edged weave of Spirit …”
7. Egwene - TDR (What is Written in Prophecy) … “She set the patterns of the weaving , readied them , making the threads of Spirit much stronger , this time , thicker and heavier , a denser weave with a cutting edge like a knife …”
8. Lanfear - TFOH (Choices) …”It was not at him directly that she struck this time. It was at his link to saidin. Panic rang the Void like a gong at the first knife-sharp touch , the Power diminishing as it slid between him and the Source. With Spirit and Fire and Earth he cut at the knife blade …”
9. Moghedien - TSR (Into the Palace) … “Moghedien’s axe of Spirit waxed and waned in sharpness , but that would not matter if the woman managed to drive it home…”
10. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “she had to keep forcing it back to a razor edge; the woven flows did not want to hold the keenness.”
11. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “Examining what she had done , she saw it had not been as complete a victory as she had wanted. The shield had blurred its sharp edge before it slid home. Moghedien was captured and shielded , but not stilled…”
Some examples of precision weaving...
1. Asmodean - TSR (The Traps of Rhuidean) … “Lying there , he stared up at three bright ribbons … Hard as steel , sharp enough to make a razor seem a feather …”
2. Cyndane - WH (With the Choedan Kal) … “A razor-thin flow of Air sliced the fellow’s beard in two as it took off his head …”
3. Moghedien - TSR (Into the Palace) … “Before thought she struck out , weaving a hammer-hard flow of Air to smash that face. In an instant the glow of saidar surrounded the other woman … and Nynaeve’s flow was sliced razor clean …”
4. Moghedien - TSR (Into the Palace) … “For a moment she could only stare. One of the figures , an odd animal shaped roughly like a pig but with a large round snout and feet as wide as its thick legs , stood where the seal had … It was not really there; the thing was woven from Air and Fire, in flows so minute they made cobwebs seem cables. Even concentrating she could barely see them. She doubted if Liandrin and the other Black sisters could have …”
5. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “The knife-sharp shield that Egwene had used to still Amico Nagoyin sprang into being …”
6. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “the Forsaken struck with a complex weave of Spirit streaked by Water and Air. Nynaeve had no idea what it was meant to do; frantically she tried to cut it as she had seen the other woman do , with a keen-edged weave of Spirit …”
7. Egwene - TDR (What is Written in Prophecy) … “She set the patterns of the weaving , readied them , making the threads of Spirit much stronger , this time , thicker and heavier , a denser weave with a cutting edge like a knife …”
8. Lanfear - TFOH (Choices) …”It was not at him directly that she struck this time. It was at his link to saidin. Panic rang the Void like a gong at the first knife-sharp touch , the Power diminishing as it slid between him and the Source. With Spirit and Fire and Earth he cut at the knife blade …”
9. Moghedien - TSR (Into the Palace) … “Moghedien’s axe of Spirit waxed and waned in sharpness , but that would not matter if the woman managed to drive it home…”
10. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “she had to keep forcing it back to a razor edge; the woven flows did not want to hold the keenness.”
11. Nynaeve - TSR (Into the Palace) … “Examining what she had done , she saw it had not been as complete a victory as she had wanted. The shield had blurred its sharp edge before it slid home. Moghedien was captured and shielded , but not stilled…”
I know you won't like it, but I've got to say your examples remind me of Ishamael666 explaining how Lan was the deadliest fighter because he was described as looking 'like a lion' while other fighters were described as looking 'like wolves'. Or the other way 'round.
We've seen weaker channelers play with shielding. Moiraine merely puts all her strength into a shield and hurls it as the Sister from the Black Ajah, Merean. It bounces off. I don't think they have the natural ability to do what any of these channelers above can do, which means that they cannot still people unaided, even if they have the strength. I only mentioned that maybe Moiraine could still Morgase because the strength along could perhaps do the trick, much like Rand's fists of Spirit against the Aes Sedai.
Or maybe it's because she was trying to shield someone, and not still them? Moiraine is an Aes Sedai, I imagine she knows the difference between those two weaves. That she didn't use a Stilling weave doesn't demonstrate that she couldn't have.
You're more than welcome to believe that any channeler can still another one, and they merely have to duplicate that weave. I can't contest it. All I can say is that I believe that a circle offers the precision required for linked channelers to still people, and that strong channelers can duplicate this precision naturally. Strong channelers have been shown to weave precision weaves often in the series, but weaker ones almost never. As Nynaeve says, it's not about the strength as much as it is the sharpness of the shield, and when she lost it, it became a regular shield. Most channelers can probably duplicate Nynaeve's normal shield with an angreal, but very few can create the razor sharp edges seen in stilling weave. Samitsu says that she can regulate a Healing weave as well as a full circle, which shows how a circle affects channeling ability even for those who cannot Heal. Stilling people may be like 'Samitsu' but in a different domain, and when people can't do it, they link to do it. It's not a Talent, but I think precision weaving comes with strength which usually provides natural aptitude and ability with the Power.
I think it's more like a secondary weave - you have to use your strength to create a shield powerful enough to shield the enemy, then a second weave to make it a Stilling weave. Or maybe not. I don't typically get too involved in channeling arguments.
I just don't see much evidence of the average channeler's ability to still another one... it seems like they're not strong or skilled enough.
It was for a long time considered to be the ultimate punishment for a channeler, and yet the Black ajah never threaten other channelers with it, or try it on their captives. They shield them or kill them. In Egwene's Accepted test Beldeine says that 'they stilled' her, which once again denotes a group.
As for the men, I do think it's a group effort. Reds never go for male channelers anyway, never mind for stilling. The practice is to gather as many sisters as possible from any ajah to overwhelm him. There was probably a group of Reds - I'd say about 10 - 15 who gentled these men outside of the Tower. The Sitters took the brunt of the punishment though.
I don't know... if you can find me any evidence that an average channeler can still another channeler unaided, I'll buy it. Otherwise I'll keep my theory that you need a sharp shield, and only strong channelers can do that
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Still the Darkfriends.
03/10/2009 05:25:29 PM
- 1992 Views
Makes sense, but...
03/10/2009 07:04:27 PM
- 746 Views
Nynaeve does. Egwene did it solo in tDR. Rand did 3 at once in LoC, but men don't seem to know how
03/10/2009 07:16:03 PM
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Re: Nynaeve does. Egwene did it solo in tDR. Rand did 3 at once in LoC, but men don't seem to know h
04/10/2009 12:55:55 AM
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Is this the real stilling?
04/10/2009 09:06:32 AM
- 1103 Views
It's real stilling
04/10/2009 02:55:35 PM
- 704 Views
Re: It's real stilling
04/10/2009 06:46:58 PM
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Re: It's real stilling
04/10/2009 06:53:52 PM
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I think Egwene took longer because it was the first time. *NM*
04/10/2009 07:20:26 PM
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Not in my opinion
05/10/2009 05:00:30 AM
- 998 Views
How does that respond to what I said?
05/10/2009 05:15:57 AM
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Re: How does that respond to what I said?
05/10/2009 09:07:16 PM
- 606 Views
I disagree.
04/10/2009 10:03:56 PM
- 669 Views
Re: I disagree.
05/10/2009 04:58:04 AM
- 675 Views
Then...
05/10/2009 05:12:45 AM
- 575 Views
Re: Then...
05/10/2009 09:09:04 PM
- 594 Views
I'd like you to clear this up...
06/10/2009 02:18:01 AM
- 640 Views
Re: I'd like you to clear this up...
06/10/2009 07:50:33 AM
- 788 Views
Re: I'd like you to clear this up...
07/10/2009 02:28:34 AM
- 682 Views
Re: I'd like you to clear this up...
07/10/2009 08:20:34 AM
- 620 Views
Well, you may, but I remain unconvinced .
08/10/2009 12:22:31 AM
- 714 Views
Sounds good, but the Aes Sedai aren't known for making the most logical decisions. Nice Post *NM*
03/10/2009 07:47:36 PM
- 313 Views
oops i meant to put "aren't" but i accidently put are. It's edited now. Sorry for any confusion *NM*
03/10/2009 10:26:50 PM
- 297 Views
Re: Still the Darkfriends.
04/10/2009 04:51:58 AM
- 810 Views
Re: Still the Darkfriends.
04/10/2009 02:06:51 PM
- 662 Views
Re: Still the Darkfriends.
04/10/2009 05:45:16 PM
- 1335 Views
Remember Shadar Logoth
04/10/2009 02:49:06 PM
- 593 Views
The only thing worse than ignoring morality for pragmatism is moralizing a non-moral issue
04/10/2009 09:36:43 PM
- 703 Views